An excellent oped piece. I would certainly hope that Ms. Winfrey will take this to heart. I also hope she will talk to You, Dr. Carroll, as Native American,rather than a New Age practioner who is running a business based on money.

sigh....nice socks Al - "our-guile?"

Mr. Carrol, Thank you for your very on point comments.

I would really like EVERYONE to stop referring to what Mr. Ray had as a Sweat Lodge. What he constructed and ran is in NO WAY anything even similar to what our Traditional Spiritual Inercessors lead. Mr. Ray is NOT a Traditionally trained and recognized Sweat Lodge Ceremony leader/intercessor. The pourer was NOT a Traditiionally trained and recognized pourer. A Traditional Intercessor is responsible for every participant and contantly monitors their well being and condition-- Mr. Ray could not even begin to do so with the number of people involved. A Triditional leader/intercessor would never have had that many people in a Sweat Lodge at one time.

The structure WAS NOT constructed according to our ways for doing so, he used plastic tarps and just about vacuum sealed the site --- highly dangerous fumes are given off when those tarps are super heated. First it was claimed that river rock (which if wet internally will explode when superheated) was used, then it changed to volcanic rock (lava rock which here again can give off toxic fumes when superheated). He neither applied for nor received a permit to construct this structure, which is required by local code and ordinance. This structure was dangerous and life threatening from the git go.

Mr. Ray left the area immediately when the proverbial crap hit the fan, refused to speak with the police and showed not the least interest in going to the hospital to check up on and be with the injured. He thinks he is covered by his NON-Liability agreements that he had the participants sign, however, he may find he is sadly mistaken. (This is not the first time there have been injuries at one of his events.) That alone says volumes about this man. Just a few days later he was once again running his "For Big Bucks" seminars. His actions are not those of one who walks a spiritually concerned and compassionate person.

I firmly believe that Ms. Winfrey is trying to help all those she can, that she wants nothing but the best for all of us. At this point I am hoping that she will take a stand in this matter and withdraw her endorsement/approval of this man who is ONLY interest is in the money he can garner from the unsuspecting public. He has not only insulted her and her support with his actions; he has cause a lot of upheaval in the Native American Comminity and brought even greater unwarranted disparagment to our Sacred Ceremonies.

Some Americans have become become very successful by their own efforts and deserve accolades for for their hard earned success. However, there must be certain amount of restraint by anyone who has been successful for there is a lot of responsibility that comes with success. A great danger lies in thinking, because one has done so well, that you will always be correct in your assesments and possess superior judgement, enlightenment, and wisdom.

Successful people must fight the tendency to get a messianic complex, believing their monetary and social success empower them to discern and decide what is true and right for others. Truth is, many wealthy people were probably better at discerning correct paths and associations when they were just starting down the path to success. So now three people are dead and many are injured due to a sharlaton who tried to pose as a shaman or spiritual guide. Did these who died and others who were injured go to this sweat lodge because it seemed to have the "Oprah" seal of approval?

Millions of viewers admire and respect Oprah. Having rejected her previous Christian faith, Oprah relied on her own wisdom She (unwittingly) promoted this guy and his concept of spirituality. While she may bear no legal responsibility, perhaps a sense of moral responsibility would lead her to cover the expenses of the dead and the injured. What she will do for her concience may be beyond what money can provide.

Al and his Socs should stay in their drawer. This Community, like the Native American Indian Community, has not asked his opinion, and apparently, after a source-check, the New York Times sees no value in it either. A simple search will reveal to any interested reader the techniques Mr. Carroll uses to try to get publicity from other peoples' tragedies - aka exploitation. As a Native American, I seek no apology from Ms. Winfrey for anything she has done or hasn't done. This is not the place for further discussion on the topic, and neither is Al Carroll's hate-&-bigotry-forum. Interested parties may visit other legitimate Native sites -none of which condone Mr. Carroll's activities.

Pilamiya (thank you)! Being a Lakota woman and participating in many sweats, I am appalled and saddened by what James Ray has done. I have participated in many sweats and have never seen anyone get sick or die as a result of the sweat lodge itself. We have a proper protocol that is done by our elder(s) that has been strictly followed throughout the generations and when so-called "new agers" take what they find interesting and convenient for them, they are not aware of the ramifications of not doing a ceremony properly, I believe it's gonna piss off the spirits and unfortunately innocent people paid with their lives for the mistake James Ray made. Now, I don't believe that Oprah should apologize for another's actions. That is not her responsibility. However an acknowlegement of what has happened should not be ignored. We all need to pray for the families who were affected by this tragedy and also pray for James Ray to find humility in what he has done and take responsibility for his actions.

As a relative of one of the deceased of the tragedy in Sedona, Ms. Winfrey does indeed need to make some type of statement. She needs to stop putting her faith and power behind these charlatans, and then when all hell breaks, keep her silence. At the very least, a statement needs to be made on her web site. Just by having Ray on her show, she promoted him and his bizarre beliefs and seminars. And as we all know, once something gets the "Oprah Seal of Approval" Everyone thinks it is better than sliced bread. She is still promoting him by pushing "The Secret", which he co-wrote.

Sorry, I don't think the issue right now is wether Native Americans deserve an apology (and they may deserve one as well from Ray), but I think as someone earlier in the chat said, just this creeps actions speak so much louder than words, leaving the scene, not speaking to authorities, not personally calling families of the deceased, continuing with his so called seminars.

snake oil man

they came in herds
cud overdue
fists full and green
even Oprah said to
to sandy soul pastures
to starve
to purge
salvation four lane
hopeful rebirth
--back of the line to see the snake oil man

three days fasting
three days flying
90 minutes
three spent dying
he opened the chamber
said step inside
their souls nudged rafters
heavy hearts sighed
heads bowed low
humid magick
sizzled
rocks spoke freedom
rocks spoke wisdom

ssssspirit warriors
ssssecret sssshown
weaknessssses overcome

no womb birthed release
no ah transcendence
just plastic shaman
easy bake
oven preeminence
here's the church
fly with the eagle
peel back the layers
save the sheeple

medicine man waited outside
the timer went off
let sweat decide
reiterated
regurgitated
he said push on through
gamble for a cool man
secret's on you

drink the liver
caution the lungs
death rattles
when the ego says run
run
when consciousness
is thirsty
and flies on the dun
keep the receipt
it's not having fun

~S. Kelley Harrell

Ms Winfrey is (spiritually) in very dangerous territory.

The Universe taps us lightly at first but if we ignore the warning a (metaphorical) freight train is on its way.........no matter WHO we are!

Of course, we are absolutely responsible for our own decisions ...........however .the kind of influence she wields does bring accountability !

Given her overwhelming past support for this charlatan she has a moral obligation to take some kind of stance or make some kind of statement.............silence is not an option.

I spent two years living in a famous spiritual community but left because I was horrified by the way untrained "leaders" led groups of trusting and vulnerable people into dangerous psychological territory .....and left them there!

At least a "this could be harmful " warning notice could be displayed on her show whenever she enters potentially dangerous New Age territory.

Particularly when the "gurus" have no REAL qualifications at all.

I too am disappointed not to hear from Oprah on this matter. I never got a good vibe from James Ray, so her implicit endorsement of his work had no effect on me. But I bet a lot of people believed in him in part because of her support. I don't expect her to be psychic; she can't know what every person who appears on her program has genuine integrity. I am not sure that is a reasonable expectation.

I am sure that she is grappling with this issue and how to address it. But in the interest of her own integrity, I do hope that she will address it, and very soon.

I purchased three DVDs of The Secret on her recommendation. I like one of the teachers on it very much; but many seem like scam artists or in some way suspect. Unfortunately, this horrible tragedy has tainted the DVD forever...and made even the teacher I loved suddenly seem suspect.

I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with this. I could use her help.

Ms.Winfrey

I do not believe you owe anyone an Apology ,James ray has to answer for what has happened,for what he has done.

I Believe a qualified aboriginal Sweat lodge conductor would of taken one look at that poor imitation of a sweat lodge {at sedona } and demanded it be removed and he or she would have rebuilt one the proper way or they would have refused to conduct the ceremony.

Ms.Winfrey there are a lot of frauds out there if you come across Non-native or native people and they are charging money for any aboriginal ceremonies they are frauds.

Ms.Winfrey if you come across Non-native or native people who are demanding that all participants must be nude ,they to are frauds.

I realize that in the non-native community anyone can pick up that black book and start spuing some twisted version of it`s content.

it does not work that way in Native communities ,our Aboriginal Ceremonial conductors are taught for many years, they also during this time of teaching are going through a great deal of personal sacrifice,the bottom line is they EARN the right to conduct certain ceremonies there Elder will make this public that so and so is qualified to run sweats for example.

the difference Ms.Winfrey between James ray and an authorized Aboriginal sweat lodge conductor is just this simple .

in the native sweat because of the qualified sweat lodge conductor the spirits come into that lodge to help and protect , the spirits are the ones who do the healing.

in james rays very poor and deadly imitation ,the spirits aren`t there.

in closing Ms.Winfrey I would like to ask a favor of you ,I would like to see you devote ONE whole show to this problem I would suggest that you invite a couple of knowledgeable aboriginal people on to discuss this problem as well as bring to light some native culture,I believe a show like this could save lives. I would suggest that you invite Arvol looking Horse and Winona Laduke and if they can`t make it maybe they could suggest some elders who might be able to make it.

Thanks