Mamolie,

THANK YOU for that post!! You described my life to a T. My (ex and now deceased) husband of 15 years and my mom both fit so neatly into that category. You are right in that they strip away everything you once thought yourself to be and you start questioning yourself!! Also, there is never an end to abuse and there is never a reason. After we divorced,I always thought my husband would apologize for treating me so badly during our marriage, but he never did. When he died, I was sad to think that apology would never come. I then went to counseling and was told that there never would have been an apology. I decided that if that is what love is, I want no part of it. The counselor then explained to me that he never loved me, it was all about him!!! I have been divorced now 8 years and still feel that I am not good enough to get a good man although I know I am a good person, a good friend, and a good mom!

Thank you again!!!!

Kathy

You write well and explain your feelings wonderfully...I can identify with the prisoner not partnership..they wallow in our pain after the fact..thanks for your insight.

You have aptly described the situation very well. But I am here to offer a different perspective or to shed light on another rippling effect. I've watched a loved one single-handedly- with purpose and mindful obsession turn over her beautiful life to a narcissist. I've put up with the aftermath--late night crying jags; hospital visits and even suicide attempts. She drained me dry of sympathy; empathy and strength. Watching her try and rebuild her life; gain her self-respect and move on to fall for the same type of man over again has been demoralizing. Each time; my friendship and support is taken for granted as she demands more and more help at every new low and disapointment. I feel that I'll always love her as a friend --but I confess to liking her less and less as she pushes the limits of what my friendship is about. I confess; I feel like I'M the one in an abusive relationship--not to mention her family--her children and everything she touches.

The lover of a narcissist is really all about winning at all costs. She will gladly discard her friends; her family; her beliefs; and in the case of my friend even her religious convictions--just to keep her narcissist happy--who incidentally lives his life in a perpetual funk and so will never be happy. The lover of a narcissist will also learn to manipulate her relationships to extrapolate favors for herself; her narcissist and anyone she hopes to use to better ingratiate herself to her narcissist. The lover of a narcissist is someone who has determined that she will prove to the world and herself that HER love HER passion HER compassion HER forgiveness HER simple goodness or whatever can change the world or at least the narcissist she worships. For it is only HIS opinion that she seeks. It is only HIS opinion that she values and it is only HIS opinion that she gladly commits her life to. Her children are taught to cast down their pearls before swine or have contempt for those who love them. If there is another side of the coin then in some ways these people are just as self-absorbed with themselves; their dramas and their pain and are blinded by its effects on others. Perhaps that is why they are together. They are locked in some Sado-Masochistic psychosis. As for me; I've put some boundaries on my friendship. As for my friend--she has been recently dumped again. Yes; I've received the 2am crying jags--but I just let it go to voice mail and called in the morning. So far, no suicide threats but I confess to being worried. I'm sure she's in pain and will get over it as soon as she can find another narcissist.

For the record; there are signs in the beginning; the middle; the end; all through the day--the hours--the minutes; etc. It amazes me how each one was ignored; rationalized or was excused away. For the benefit of anyone who needs to read this---If you meet someone and start rationalizing or excusing any little thing--count that as a red flag--don't invest anymore emotion until you check that. Don't say there is a connection immediately--so that you think its too late to save yourself. Value your own mind and listen to it as it tries to protect you.

This is what I am going through right now , it describes me to a T! The pain, anguish and confusion. I am so lost and scared.

Once you have survivied a relationship like this, you are hyper vigilant to the red flags and you do not want to experience it again. Someone could very well be sucked in again,because N's are so good at acting, but you are right, the red flags you missed the first time, you won't ignor the second time. Sounds to me like your friend could very well be a Narcissist her self, she is manipulating and useing you as her dumping ground. You do need to set up boundaries and take a good look at your friendship, how much has she enriched your life, how much support does she give you, is it always about her needs. Once you read about Narcissistic personality disorder, you know all the love in the world will not turn them into a caring, loving partner, there is no hope, you know to run the other way, or you have to leave, they are a hopeless cause.They all lack empathy and can not love anyone. Take a good look at your friend, is she ever there for you, or is it all about her and her life. A partner of an N truely suffers and does need support from family and friends to recover and you sound like a very good friend. My H has duel personalties, Mr Wonderful to the outside world, no one can understand what I have lived through. You have to live this to know what it is like, my best friend never got it, never will, I stoped trying to explain it to her, it is too confusing, when all she sees is Mr. Wonderful. Most partners never get help or support from family or friends, the N's fool just about everyone and hardly anyone knows about this disorder, so we suffer alone and in silence. Take a good look at your friendship???? hugs mamolie44

nedyson, would you like to talk more about your situation. Are you married, do you have any children? Do you have anyone around you that knows what you are going through? So sorry you are going through this would you like to share more about yourself? Hugs mamolie44

I agree that I've been holding back my deepest suspicion---my friend is also a narcissist. Ironically, in an attempt to get help she met with a therapist who described the men in her life with narcissistic personality disorder. She worships these men and claims an attraction or connection to them immediately. I frankly, find it hard to believe. Not to say that I'm not romantic--but these guys have no issue with treating her like a whore, or whatever from the beginning; some even within hours of their first meeting--they are unapologetic, show no remorse whatever and even exhibit sociopathic tendencies in their inability to empathize. I was pulled into her drama b/c I thought we shared a spiritual bond-- and I found her enchanting and fun. I was immediately horrified and outraged at some of the things she endured and prayed with her; talked with her; went to therapy with her; and now I feel that all of it was just fodder for her drama--what a friggin waste. I was discarded the minute she felt a new commitment with another guy. Truth be told; I was glad for the break--my husband resented the intrusion and time I was spending in dropping everything to help a friend in need. Its been nice getting my life back to normal with my hubbie and even though I knew her new relationship would go nowhere--I was through with playing the dumpee. That lasted about a year. Now its all back again. B/c of her suicide attempts I'm cautious of appearing to "kick her while she's down" But in my heart--I do feel that like attracts like and she is a narcissist herself. I also feel her therapist did her a disservice by not addressing some of her own problems.

I don't believe in blaming the victim but I've always suscribed to the philosophy that we are all responsible for our own happiness. This does not mean we are to blame for all the unhappiness and pain in our lives; bad things happen and other people can hurt us for any reason and no reason. But we are responsible for making our own happiness in spite of those things or even because of it. I say all this to say again for anyone who may need to read this; Take stock of what you are looking for to make yourself happy--my friend always falls for the "total package" kind of guy. Understand and define what respect; kindness; maturity looks like to you--many times it does not look like the glamorized images that permeate the media or the "total package" guy that gets a lot of attention and play. It NEVER looks like anyone who is condescending; arrogant and selfish despite how sexy he may look in his jeans. Physical attraction is cool "I don't see nothing wrong w/a lil bump n grind" between two consenting adults. EMOTIONAL attraction is different and SPIRITUAL attraction is divine. Confusing all three is HELL on earth.

ACTUALLY, your friend sounds co-dependent. Do some research on it. They're not opposites, narcissism and codependency. The codependent person is a people pleaser, and often latches onto a narcissist who simply cannot be pleased. There are moments of extreme happiness in their situation, then extreme depression, almost like bipolar, and drama follows this person like a black raincloud. They feel they are nothing without the presence of others and base their happiness on the happiness of others. Your friend does need therapy, and can come through codependency with much effort. It sounds like you're doing the right thing in distancing yourself. As far as "kicking her while she's down," by distancing yourself you are not kicking her while she's down. You're no longer enabling her behavior. If she can spend some time single and getting to know herself and finding ways to make herself happy she can find herself in a good place. Good luck to you-

sleepless4

Sleepless4 makes a good point about your friend being codependent. Setting boundaries in your relationship with her is good for both of you. You need it to stop feeling like you are being dumped on. Your friend needs it so she understands that ultimately it is up to her to improve her situation. I've been in the codependent role. I have a close friend who is still in that role. It took me a long time to wake up. Lifelong patterns are difficult to see, understand and break. It takes time, determination and the willingness to face the ensuing pain. You can help your friend by listening when she calls, to a point. If she is calling about her relationship woes, perhaps you can give her 5 minutes. Then ask her what specific actions she plans to take to improve her situation. If she has no answers, you can tell her to talk to a professional as her needs are beyond what you can do to help her. Keep circling back to what is it that she is going to do to improve her situation.

That is some golden advice right there!

Hello to everyone on this site! I would first like to wish you a Happy and Prosperous New Year. Thank you offering clarity in the definition of Narcissist. I have been in a relationship for 11 years. It has been an emotional roller coaster and every time I tried 'to get out I found myself being manipulated in staying for another year. He has been living at least two different lives with at least two different women. Safe for him not married to neither. I was always emotionally and physically available. She was his financial nest. I had a family whom are now all grown up and gone. She did not have any children but is head of children's services. Scarry!!! She is well aware of his behaviour since I finally followed my instints and contacted on a couple of occassion. Every festive holidays he vanished to be with her. The only thing is that he would call me the night before to tell me that he was going to be with her. Or, he would simply vanish in the fall for a six weeks holiday, coming back and asking me for forgiveness.
He is a charmer, he is an artist who beautifies churches and has powerful connections with women's committees. People have no idea that this men is a real oportunist. When you confront him it's like he has no idea what he is doing wrong and does not feel like he is doing anything wrong. He comes around helps a bit, helps to pay the rent, but then you spend it trying to meet him with all his out-of-town jobs. He makes you feel like Cinderella and then drops you 10,000 feet from the sky. (figure of speech). I feel like my feet are stuck in quicksand and I can't seem to regain my pride, energy, or ambtion. He stripped me of everything, myself, my soul and took my heart. It is very difficult to think of trying to find someone else when you have nothing left of yourself to give. In response to the first comment written on Narcissist you have described my life and how I am left feeling. I truly do not know how I will rebuild my life, I feel so emotionally traumatized. As for the other girl I see her caught in the same cycle but I guess her personal image in society is worth the suffering. I know that he is manipulating her the same way he manipulated me, making her feel like she is the ONLY ONE HE LOVES!!!! You're right it is very difficult for the victim to seek treatment from this abuse. No one seems to have the tools to help you get back on your feet. I've lost all my friends because they just got tired of seeing me in pain and crying over him and taking him back. But unless you have actually been there like anything else you really don't understand. Four years ago I got into gambling and almost lost my life trying to ease the pain. Thank GOD!!! I am not doing that anymore, but I sure have taken an emotional beating from him!!! I am a well educated lady in health and law.....So it isn't because I lack education or smarts. I raised my three children on my own with no support and they also have done something with their life. Good morals, respectful... He became serious with him when I had an empty nest and all the kids were gone. I've known him for 27 years, But you know the old saying "You never really know someone even if you thnk you do" BEWARE!!!

I would really like to have the tools to make the pain go away and get on with whatever is left of my life. I am 48 and he is 63 years old. We did have a great deal of free lance fun when we were together but when he is with someone else the pain is to great to endure. I would rather not be on this planet. So I guess I really need to get some help! Can anyone who has gone through a similar experience offer me or tell me how they got through this. Because they are like EverReady Battery who just keep going on and on.
Help me Please!
Thanks Pinklady01

mamolie44, sincere thanks for finally describing the narcissistics and their characteristics. nobody ever put this into words and into details like you just did. I promise before God, man, woman, and all members of this message board and the entire humanity on this earth to never ever never ever be involved with creatures like these narcissistic characters ever again in my life. I wish that somebody told me these things before. I am finally healed!
I definitely do not need a therapist to learn what I have just learned from you. NEVER AGAIN! Thank you,
Remain blessed.
Happy New Year.

Heads up, if anyone wants professional help, make sure you do a search for a therapists that knows about personality disorders. I went through 5 different ones trying to work on the problems in our marriage. I gave off plenty of clues, especially, seems like he has no empathy, like he can't feel, not a one mentioned this disorder and I got more confused and no help at all along the way. I was convinced I was not finding the right words to get through to my H or the therapists. I had the right words, wrong therapists, and you can not reason or work through things with a personality disordered partner. Most therapists are ignorant to this disorder. Marriage counseling was the worst, set me back years when he won her over to his side. I truely though I had gone insane but looked up personality disorders on line to save the little sanity I had left. I found the answer, narcissistic personality disorder, the reason and answers for the madness I lived. I searched for support groups on line and you will be amazed at how much they are alike, you will read your life story almost word for word but written by a stranger. Funny, I call mine the ENERGIZER BUNNIE, he keeps on going and going and going. I am at careplace.com as mamolie there are other women there in different stages of healing, it helps to know you are understood and not alone, recovery is hard for everyone. There have been some problems on the board, N's are everywhere, including, sadly, support boards. If you want to give it a try, join narcissistic personality group at careplace and look me up, mamolie, I can get you an invite to, true healing after an NPD relationship where you can get help and support from other people who know exactly what you are living or lived through. You have to live it to understand what a nightmare it is. Hugs mamolie

You are so right.My husband I believe after twenty three years of marriage is both a narccist and suffers from bi-polar disorder. Mental illness runs in his family. For yeras i have tried to get him to seek help. He refuses for the last fifteen years of our marriage he has had numerous affairs and it is also alleged that he has a love child with a old flame.He has gambled and done drugs over the years.I have been emotional, verbally and physically abused. Sometimes to much knowledge is not a good thing. Knowing what his problems are i stayed. However, in the last five years or so I have emotionally removed myself from this man. I have no feelings for him and everyday he leaves the house i hope that he does not return. When he is not home. I feel free, I play music, read etc".I am free to be me"We have separated over the years with the longest being one year. All of a sudden he just reappears and thinks that we can pick up where we left off. That is his narccistic mind working.My mind states I no longer love you, have no feelings for you so why do you want to be in a house where you are ignored? Again, his mind over matter takes place.Narccistic behavior is a very cruel behavior. I have a illness that he tells me:so what?My needs are much more important. I hate this man,but more importantly I hate myself for letting him reduce me to this....

Having been through this twice, I think there is one easy clue that we all try to rationalize..It's the shock you feel the 'first' time he screams, name calls or hits you..If you feel blindsided, confused and shocked by his behaviour then trust that he has a problem and you can't fix it by staying..Because by staying you are saying it is 'OK' to treat you this way. And he will...
These guys are impossible to "fix"... You think you are showing him love by staying, he see's only one thing, you are just as weak and pathetic as he thought you were.
It 'never' gets better and it 'will' get worse..
You have to trust that the 'first shock' is the answer and act on it by leaving.