Suicide?

"So if Mr. Tolle had committed suicide, what would that mean" Let me guess, dead!

Sorry, could not help myself. A good question. Suicide is against the law or man and God. I don't think people hurting that mush, are thinking about law and or God.

Michael

Hi ganesha9 -- Here is what the Catholic Church, the world's first and largest Christian denomination has to say about suicide in its official teaching which is summarized in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance." The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives. I believe Tolle would say that a truly awakened person would not choose suicide. Others will probably disagree. As a survivor of someone who committed suicide, let me say that suicide creates a grotesquely horrible painbody for those who are left behind. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. With all my heart I pray for anyone who is attracted to this thread because they are considering suicide. Your pain is real but temporary. Have faith and hang in there with your ANE and you, like ET, will be glad that you chose life. May all the holy angels rush to your side with a great symphony of hope and joy and lift you safely and gently from the dark places that wish to seduce you.

That was very nice. A truly useful comment. Thank you.

I believe it is the ego or painbody which drives people to suicide.

From my own experience, I had suffered depression on and off since I was in my late teens until last year when I turned 27. I can only call it depression but I never seeked a doctor's advice about it. I never liked the idea of being prescribed pills to treat it. But I'd hit some real low points and felt suicidal myself many a time. I couldn't understand why, although my life situation wasn't great, it didn't seem to merit suicide.

When I stumbled upon one of Eckhart's DVD talks in January last year, I immediately felt an inner shift. I'd had no previous interest in spirituality but I immediatly recognised what he was saying and realised that it was my ego-created "story" that had been causing me all the pain. Since then, although my awakening has been pretty intense, I have never felt depressed and have no desire to kill myself anymore. That changed over night for me.

It showed me clearly that many people suffering depression and those who commit suicide may have nothing wrong with them other than some sort of deep recognition that there is more to life than what we see on the surface yet are unable to make that recognition conscious. It's a mystery as to why some make it and others don't.

It is the ego that drives one to suicide. The ego wants you dead. Of course, you can't really die, but the ego is the "idea" that there is such a thing as death, and wants you to belief in it. Tolle did not commit suicide because he came upon a solution in his mind to end the pain and he surrendered to the solution. The problem started in the mind, but that is where the solution is also, not out there.

It seems Mr. Tolle did committ a form of "suicide" that, to reference him, allowed the divine to come through...

Thank you gallowglas for you kind words, having left the catholic church along time ago the words you spoke were very comforting. when I was 15 my best friends mother committed suicide,it was very hard to understand at the time, but node that I am much older and gone thru my own depression, I know the place she must have been,I also had a friend that shot herself 5 months ago, she was only 44. I wish I could have done something,but they usually don't let on how bad it is for them. I believe GOD has them both in his loving embrace, he understood how they felt, and our prayers were heard. peace and love to you,

Its nice to beleive that they are safe. That is not the truth. The truth shall set your mind free of things that seem to be. This God is not in your head and He is love and perfect and we can only be in his presence by knowing Jesus and asking him to be the center of our life. I also had a relative commit sucicide recently and my heart bleeds for his eternal life, He was in a bad place when it happened and nothing anyone here can do to save his life or give him life with Christ in heaven. If you only beleive in yourself and your own power than you also are" being led to the slaughter and being told that its a party and this God is in your head, and every single lie sounds like the greatest truth but the one truth your not hearing is that he died for you". (lyrics by Jimmy Needham)
Truth is God, Love is God and Salvation is His son that paid the price for our Sin and if you choose to not beleive in Him and His Father, but rather to rely on self and pain body or your ego; good luck to that. This idea of ego and pain body seems a good way of picking apart our own selfs and examining why we do and dont do. That does not make it so. Youu were created individually and you are known for all your own distinctions and you are His master piece and you are saying that all that is null and void and your own existance is created by you. You choose that is the difference He gives.

You are entitled to you opion as am I .

I apologize to anyone who read the condemnation post. I was posing a question as one who has struggled most of this existence with the idea of leaving this world of pain, not just my own but the pain and suffering in the world. I can't believe that "God" would continue to punish one who was in so much pain to begin with, with more pain. A dear friend of mine left this world in such a way, it was not to harm others it was to end his own suffering which he was not able to do, and he was a minister of the Christian faith. I just really would like to know Mr. Tolle's ideas on this. I just don't understand why the "religious" ones find the need to condemn & judge others. This is some of the suffering in the world that is very hard for me to witness...I do know it is hard for the ones left after such an event and is probable the only reason I am still here. It's hard to devise a plan that does not look like suicide and hope that they won;t figure out once your gone...any way maybe this thread should be taken down...

ferguson60 and others ~ It may be "ego who sits in the passenger seat" as a director but it is pain-body that is "driving ones form" which can no longer bear the pain of what life has become for one to take such a drastic step... I know ~ I was there many times many years ago... I had no "conscious" thought as to where I was going or why ~ I just wanted 'out'... I nearly made it during a final attempt becoming (literally) unconcious for a couple of days ~ yet for some time it was only 'fear' that stopped me from ever doing that again... Thus I do beleive "ego" is out to do us in and this choice to lead a conscious life that would begin to flower through my 'awakening' to tell ego to go to He**!!! 'Ego' kept on telling me that I wanted to die for sometime after that and thankfully others stepped in and I began to embrace my spirituality ~ knowing that one day I would 'leave form' and I indeed had a choice of 'how' to live my life in the 'now' ~ one day at a time...

Living in a conscious world with awareness can be so painful sometimes and in learning to "let go of painful memories" and the actions of others has not been an easy journey... By not letting go that 'voice of ego' would have kept me a state of living in an 'unconcious form'...

Sometimes being on the brink of suicide is the only way one can become "conscious of choice" within their unconcious being...

Jeannie G

My brother committed suicide last May after seven previous attempts. He was 31-years-old and had 6 kids. He had some really terrible things happen to him during his short life. Things that no human should ever have to endure (he was molested for years by our family doctor who was a close family friend.). He also made a lot of terrible choices (drugs and stealing) which lead him down a path of destruction. As a child he was was sweet soul. Had a genius level IQ, and massive potential. As a child he also accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior.... but he was lead astray in his teen years. He spent many years in a life of degradation. The day before his death he gave the prison chaplain a wonderful testimony, about the loving kindness and forgiveness of God. He had asked God for forgiveness and truly felt he had been forgiven for the life he had led. In his suicide note he said that life on earth was just too painful for him, and that he had messed this life up beyond repair. He just wanted to have some peace. He truly believed he was going to a better place for him. I want to believe that our God is loving enough to forgive him his transgressions and welcome him with loving arms. He hung himself in the jail, he lived for a few hours. Long enough for my parents and siblings to get to the hospital. I think that he was such a tortured soul, and I held his hand as his being left his body. The moment he died there was such a peace that came over the room. He was finally free. It has been a life changing event for me and my whole family. I was angry with him for the choices he had made. But I loved him, he was my baby brother and we were very close as children. His death is what started me on this spiritual journey for answers. I needed peace in my soul, ANE has helped me realize taht peace. as for my brother I truly believe he is in a better place.

Not that difficult to understand actually. If religion is used as an instrument to control the masses by fear in general, and by the fear of what happens after death in particular, then one who commits suicide is like a slap into their face, ending their sadistic game by a definite escape and confronting them with a loss of power. People who are ready to die cannot be controlled anymore. That leaves them enraged.

That means you care for those left behind. You don't want to add even more pain to the world. And maybe this is key to the suffering: maybe your love was not seen or not well received by those around you, and this lead to the conclusion you have nothing to give and all you can do is not adding to the pain. Kind of a negative love as absence of harm. But maybe you are in a blind spot here and others don't expect from you as much as you expect from yourself. Maybe they don't expect you have all the answers and that you know how to fix them including the rest of the world.

I'm sure you don't want to be fixed either, not even if you're walking the edge. Maybe it's enough just being seen in your pain, and having space for the desire to put it all down, in order to explore who wants to put down exactly what. As no one can breathe for you, no one can live your life for you. I have nothing to give that can make you stay. If you want to move on, I can't hold you back.

The Tibetan Buddhist say the human realm is unique in that way that it provides enough pain for generating the desire wanting to be free from it, and at the same time enough opportunity to practice to become free from suffering.

It may sound a bit weird, but maybe you want too much pain for yourself. Maybe you need to let others pain just to be their pain. That doesn't mean numbing yourself against it, but simply accepting there are things outside of your sphere of influence. Wanting to relieve the pain of the world is kind of a power trip too, in a sense. To use a Christian symbol, let other carry their own cross. As a human being in your current form you can't get the love of everyone, but you also can't get the pain of everyone. You can't identify with Christ as an archetype and carry the cross of the world. That will destroy you.

I feel you like being caught in the drama of not being good enough by not being able to take all the pain. There might be a voice within telling you you're a constant failure. In this place, you can collapse, or you can be a warrior and give your love anyway. There is a choice and it's yours.

What I feel is that someone who can feel pain as deeply as you can has to give something to others in pain. Maybe not solutions, but just presence, just knowing, just seeing. Being with the pain, having no answers, but not going away. These people are rare souls. And sometimes giving your greatest gift to the world hurts like hell to ourselves, especially in the beginning. Being a healer is not an easy ride where you're walking in constant bliss.

As often, I can't exactly tell what inspires me to write these lines. Take what resonates and leave the rest. I'm well aware these words are as much meant for myself as for you or others. Namaste.

Ganesha, my heart is rushing out to you. Oh sweet and infinitely precious soul. I am sending my angels of light to care for you. I know for sure that ET would say that pain is not about God punishing you. If the pain is terrible, cry out to God (or whatever name you use for Him) -- go ahead, yell at Him! Then open you heart fully holding nothing back, (and this is most important) let Him rush in to console you. ANE tells us that the painbody can be controlled and transformed into a powerful force for good. Read your ANE again and do the practices. ANE can help you devise a plan that does not look like suicide -- because it isn't suicide. The answer and help for you is there. I confess to being a religious one, but know that the vast majority of us religious ones would never ever judge you. It might be easier to think of judgmental "religious ones" as Pharisees -- Jesus didn't like them either -- so you are in good company. Many blessings.

To add to that, I believe that once you get through the depression the ego is what ends up dead, not your form. So the depression is an internal battle between the ego and finding consciousness. For people with heavy pain bodies the battle that takes place within is pretty darn brutal and suicidal thoughts become your way of wanting to escape the battle.