Please prove it.

You've stated that you do not believe. You've researched, inquired, investigated, after which, you are not convinced. It does not make you comfortable to blindly believe in something, you say. It seems obvious that you are convinced that the bible and it's teachings are not true, so what do you want help with, are you looking to be convinced or converted? You come across as very solid in your position and views, I'd be suprised if anything that anyone could tell you would convince you otherwise.

Peaceful Discourse, effectual

Maybe there are people who know about some science, research or facts that I don't. I don't think I said that I don't believe the teachings in the bible are "true". I don't think the bible is something that people should use as factual history. I do think there is some wisdom in the bible mixed in with a lot of racism and ideas about who is better than who. Because of these things I don't think the bible is all good. This is not about me wanting to change anyone's mind about anything and that includes my mind. I would just like to understand whether or not there is any proof of these things, and if there is, where can I find it. So far I have found lots of people here who are willing to have a debate without being ugly about it and I think this can be the same.

People will believe what they believe, it's pretty hard to convince people to see otherwise because might unravel their story.
Heaven is a word. It is only a symbol to use to point beyond itself. Yet if I were to describe Heaven , I would say that Heaven is not place or a condition but simply an awareness of Oneness with our Source. What would hell be then? It could be said then that it is a lack of this awareness.

Great questions Luzamante!

I am no expert on anything, just a common American who is a true believer. By this I mean that I am a Christian that has been reborn and thus have the indwelling of The Holy Spirit. It is by faith that I believe the Bible is the written word of God. Faith.

There are numerous experts who say what they will. By faith, I know the truth, and it is found in the Bible. I think that an excellent resource for you to start your journey in looking for proof would be to read a book or two by Lee Stroebel. Start with his first , "A Case for Christ". It is quite readable and he answers many of the questions most people have about the validity of the Bible and Jesus.

Lee is an atheist-turned-Christian so he can truly understand many of the doubts an unbeliever has. He was educated at The University of Missouriwhere he got a Bachelor's degree in Journalism. He then received a Master of Studies in Law degree at Yale University. He was a professional journalist who was well-known and won top honors for investigative reporting. He asks questions and he continues to search until he has all the pieces of the puzzle.

As an athiest, he decided to turn his investigative skills to search for evidence to prove Christans wrong. For almost two years he investigated the evidence concerning Jesus. What he found was that everything led to "A Case for Christ" and he received Christ as his forgiver and leader.

I hope you will read the book and that you will keep coming and keep asking questions!

hi.

There is no proof in anything of the past, all are just hear say. If someone comes up with a bone and shows you where they found it and it matches the print, does it make it real ? i do not think so. Someone could of planted that bone there. I do not believe in the past, present or future unless i can touch it, see it, hear it, smell it or taste it. The same should be for you. You cannot ask others to proove it for you, because you can proove all questions for yourself with your own senses of this reality now. I do. I can proove to myself anything i quetion about to make the truth be. I will never ask anyone to proove it to me because i have my own reality which does that for me.

effectual, I wonder if you are someone who does believe that the Bible is the Word of God?

Thank you for the explanation, I think that you are right, there are lots of people here who are willing to have a discussion without being ugly about it and I too, think that this can be as well.

In Peace, effectual

continuedd, Yes, I do believe that the Bible is the Word of God. I wouldn't try to prove or convince a non-believer though, nor would I condemn them or judge them as wrong in their beliefs. I don't know their hearts and the sheep belong to God.

In Peace, effectual

I just can't help but wonder why. Why are people so willing to believe in something that is not based on facts that prove it is true? I think heaven is a state of be-ing. I spend lots of time in peace, joy, and love. To me, that is heaven. That doesn't mean I never have any problems. But I think attitude makes a big difference. Problems bring knowledge which brings strength which brings empowerment. So problems are actually a good thing if you can just look at them from a bigger place. And it makes sense that hell might be not knowing that we are not alone. Maybe hell is not taking the time to know yourself well enough to ever truly love yourself.

Effectual,

I just re-read my question of you and to me, it sounded a bit rude, which was truly not my intention. I apologize. What I really was trying to communicate was that if you do know Christ, then you must also know anything and everything is possible! . Also, we never know just who our words are reaching and what they are saying to them. So I am quite happy to see luz's questions. She is seeking answers and who knows where that might lead her - or anyone else following this board.

LOL, I just missed your answer before I wrote my second comment to you. Thank you for your answer.

It doesn't make sense to me to "know" something because of "faith" because to me knowing means that it is proven and based on facts and evidence. Faith to me is believing without proof. Believing and knowing don't mean the same things to me. Before I consider spending money on a book I would want to know whether or not the case is presented with facts and sources that back things up, or if it's just his ideas about why he believes what he does. I have heard of the book many times but never read or looked into it. I'll look it up tonight and see if I can figure out whether or not it's worth the money. I don't think there is much value in trying to prove someone wrong when it comes to what they believe because IMO you can only prove knowledge to be correct or incorrect. When ideas are stated as fact because of someone's point of view, it causes confusion, at least it did for me before I learned how to tell the difference.

Good point. Anyone who has studied quantum physics understand that real might just be someone's point of view.

Thank you. I am hope-full.

For me, hell is life without knowing God's love for me.

Heaven is where God resides and where I will one day be also.

Attitude does make a big difference. And problems aremuch easier to deal with whenone has a positive and hopeful attitude. I like what you said about problems bringing "knowledge which brings
strength which brings empowerment. So problems are actually a good
thing if you can just look at them from a bigger place." I completely agree. In fact, so does God.

Romans 5: 3-5

... We also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

When I first read throught the Bible, I was amazed at how much wonderful wisdom it held.