Did Alli get fired?

I have posted a message on the message board regarding the issue I'm sure Melissa is all fired up about. I just want to make sure that the real facts are discussed and that this doesn't become a one sided conversation.

Everyone should be so lucky as to be able to fall in love and find the love of their life. Partnership is a blessed occasion. While most religions will not accept same sex couples, they welcome most ALL individuals into their fold. It is the act of becoming a couple that most religions will NOT condone. Marriage is a religious commitment, plain and simple. Same sex couples are given ALL the legal rights and protections as any other married couple. It turns out that only 5% of the same sex couples have bothered to file for these rights and protections.

You're right, it's just a name or a title... but really, it's so much more. It's a continuation of life, of procreation, of families. Sure same sex couples can adopt, but where do those children come from.... one man and one woman together.

So, yes Melissa may be all fired up about the fact that the MAJORITY of Californians have voted to protect the sanctity of Marriage, but keep in mind, this was a legitimate VOTE put before the people, and the people have spoken. Sorry Melissa.

This is one of those issues I don't feel hugely strong about either way quite honestly. However, I hope the bulk of the show is not just about this...

Happy Friday to all. Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Georgia Mom

I didn't think the folks on Friday (except Gayle) were permanent by any means? Curious though?

One funny- go to the page that is advertising today's show- there's 3 folks on it (Oprah, Mark, Gayle) but 4 coffee cups! Probably in a way having 4 folks at the table plus guests is alot to try to talk without all talking at the same time- probably a good move to have one fewer and maybe change it around.

Happy Friday to all- off to work. Have a great weekend.

Georgia Mom

Actually there were two votes against gay marriage. The first was over ruled by a court so they had a second vote.

I did not vote for Obama but can you imagine the uproar if I protested his win? These were both legal votes but I don't see how one can be protested just because it didn't go the way they wanted.

I am very concerned about Proposition 8 passing in California. My partner of 14 years and I went out to Palm Springs back in August and got legally married. I was so excited about it, think it was one of the best things I've ever done in my life and it has really made our lives better. Now, look what happens. I am still positive that things are going to be ok and really honestly the people that voted for it to pass shouldn't have because now the gay community is really fired up and reaady for the fight.

We should all be treated equally. I agree with Melissa that since she's not considered an American then she shouldn't pay taxes. Remember we all pay them and the words, "Liberty and Justice for all" should mean something.

Thanks for listening.

Kyle

I'm really sorry I have to disagree the people didn't speak... fear and bigotry spoke just like in the past when people of different races couldn't marry in America. I truly believe that people are afriad and the media used that fear to get people to vote differently. The defition of terrorism is using fear as a weapon and fear has been used against people that love each other. It's been used in the past and will be used again.

I do believe things are going to change and hopefully love will speak this time instead of fear!

I believe that we can't legislate morality. Issues such as abortion, same sex marriage are moral issues which is between that person and the God he or she serves. I don't believe in abortion or same sex marriage, however, everyone has free choice. Marriage is biblicly defined as a union between a man and a women which makes is a moral issue. God gave us free will and at the same time gave us moral conscience to live by. Many religous leaders will argue that point, but I do know that God knew that Adam was going to eat from the tree, yet He did nothing to stop him. God knows that the preversion of women becoming men and men becoming women in their own mind, yet He does nothing to stop it because we have free will. He gives you the free will to chart your own destiny; heaven or hell, it is an individual's choice to make. We should stop entering the mind of God and bringing God down to our level , but just live our lives as we see fit under the free will of God, we will be okay.

This is not a civil rights issue because it involves women who choose to be men or a men who choose to be a women. Inequality of African Americans, Hispanics, and women are civil rights issues because they were born that way and cannot change who they are, however, gays can change who they are by changing their commitment.

What Bible are you reading? Where is love in all this? Keith Oberman put it very well in his article just days ago...

Finally tonight as promised, a Special Comment on the passage, last week, of Proposition Eight in California, which rescinded the right of same-sex couples to marry, and tilted the balance on this issue, from coast to coast.

Some parameters, as preface. This isn't about yelling, and this isn't about politics, and this isn't really just about Prop-8. And I don't have a personal investment in this: I'm not gay, I had to strain to think of one member of even my very extended family who is, I have no personal stories of close friends or colleagues fighting the prejudice that still pervades their lives.

And yet to me this vote is horrible. Horrible. Because this isn't about yelling, and this isn't about politics. This is about the human heart, and if that sounds corny, so be it.

If you voted for this Proposition or support those who did or the sentiment they expressed, I have some questions, because, truly, I do not understand. Why does this matter to you? What is it to you? In a time of impermanence and fly-by-night relationships, these people over here want the same chance at permanence and happiness that is your option. They don't want to deny you yours. They don't want to take anything away from you. They want what you want-a chance to be a little less alone in the world.

Only now you are saying to them-no. You can't have it on these terms. Maybe something similar. If they behave. If they don't cause too much trouble. You'll even give them all the same legal rights-even as you're taking away the legal right, which they already had. A world around them, still anchored in love and marriage, and you are saying, no, you can't marry. What if somebody passed a law that said you couldn't marry?

I keep hearing this term "re-defining" marriage. If this country hadn't re-defined marriage, black people still couldn't marry white people. Sixteen states had laws on the books which made that illegal in 1967. 1967.

The parents of the President-Elect of the United States couldn't have married in nearly one third of the states of the country their son grew up to lead. But it's worse than that. If this country had not "re-defined" marriage, some black people still couldn't marry black people. It is one of the most overlooked and cruelest parts of our sad story of slavery. Marriages were not legally recognized, if the people were slaves. Since slaves were property, they could not legally be husband and wife, or mother and child. Their marriage vows were different: not "Until Death, Do You Part," but "Until Death or Distance, Do You Part." Marriages among slaves were not legally recognized.

You know, just like marriages today in California are not legally recognized, if the people are gay.

And uncountable in our history are the number of men and women, forced by society into marrying the opposite sex, in sham marriages, or marriages of convenience, or just marriages of not knowing, centuries of men and women who have lived their lives in shame and unhappiness, and who have, through a lie to themselves or others, broken countless other lives, of spouses and children, all because we said a man couldn't marry another man, or a woman couldn't marry another woman. The sanctity of marriage.

How many marriages like that have there been and how on earth do they increase the "sanctity" of marriage rather than render the term, meaningless?

What is this, to you? Nobody is asking you to embrace their expression of love. But don't you, as human beings, have to embrace... that love? The world is barren enough.

It is stacked against love, and against hope, and against those very few and precious emotions that enable us to go forward. Your marriage only stands a 50-50 chance of lasting, no matter how much you feel and how hard you work.

And here are people overjoyed at the prospect of just that chance, and that work, just for the hope of having that feeling. With so much hate in the world, with so much meaningless division, and people pitted against people for no good reason, this is what your religion tells you to do? With your experience of life and this world and all its sadnesses, this is what your conscience tells you to do?

With your knowledge that life, with endless vigor, seems to tilt the playing field on which we all live, in favor of unhappiness and hate... this is what your heart tells you to do? You want to sanctify marriage? You want to honor your God and the universal love you believe he represents? Then Spread happiness-this tiny, symbolic, semantical grain of happiness-share it with all those who seek it. Quote me anything from your religious leader or book of choice telling you to stand against this. And then tell me how you can believe both that statement and another statement, another one which reads only "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

You are asked now, by your country, and perhaps by your creator, to stand on one side or another. You are asked now to stand, not on a question of politics, not on a question of religion, not on a question of gay or straight. You are asked now to stand, on a question of love. All you need do is stand, and let the tiny ember of love meet its own fate.

You don't have to help it, you don't have it applaud it, you don't have to fight for it. Just don't put it out. Just don't extinguish it. Because while it may at first look like that love is between two people you don't know and you don't understand and maybe you don't even want to know. It is, in fact, the ember of your love, for your fellow person just because this is the only world we have. And the other guy counts, too.

This is the second time in ten days I find myself concluding by turning to, of all things, the closing plea for mercy by Clarence Darrow in a murder trial.

But what he said, fits what is really at the heart of this:

"I was reading last night of the aspiration of the old Persian poet, Omar-Khayyam," he told the judge. It appealed to me as the highest that I can vision. I wish it was in my heart, and I wish it was in the hearts of all: So I be written in the Book of Love; I do not care about that Book above. Erase my name, or write it as you will, So I be written in the Book of Love."

When I heard who you were having on your show today, I had to cringe! Man......the opposition on prop. 8 is getting non-stop attention ever since the elections and it is making me soooo sad. I know that so many people watch your show- Oprah and I just wish/hope that you would give it a fair chance to discuss both sides. The majority of the population voted YES on prop. 8, but now the opposition is coming out and targeted groups and being very loud and disruptive. They are also targeting certain groups and being very negative and hurtful...even though it is a majority that voted for it....not just certain groups.

My argument for the No on 8 is - why are you trying to take away something soooo important to the majority of the population....which is the traditional definition of marriage????

Why can't two gay people have their 'civil union' ceremony and a BIG CELEBRATION (reception) after they 'tie the knot' and know that they are committed to each other and have an 'official license' to prove that they are partners....and have all the rights that a married couple has? It just doesn't make sense. Marriage is between a man and woman and it makes them a husband and a wife......not a 'husband and a husband' or a 'wife and a wife'... Elton John made great comments about this in a statement he made this past week and it was printed in the LA TIMES.

The gay/lesbian community is up in arms....but I think that the rest of us needs to be taking the stand of what we believe as well!!!
America is falling apart as the family unit/structure is falling part. Please give a voice to the majority of the population who feel it is important to preserve the traditional definition of marriage!!!! PLEASE!!!! I will feel soooo dissapointed if we don't see a fair representation of what the majority is feeling out here in California today on your show.

PLEASE see it that the no on 8 feel like they are having rights taken away..... they are trying to take something away from us and our children... and that is not fair either. GO FOR THE CIVIL UNIONS my friends!

A concerned mom from California

I sure hope both sides will be represented. Melissa Etheridge fired up about California Voters passing Prop 8? Sorry Melissa it passed!

Are you going to talk about the fact that kids twould be taught in school that marriage between a man and a man / woman and a woman is the same as a man and a women if it didn't pass?

Sir Elton John couldn't of said it any better:

Elton John: Heterosexual Couples Have Marriage, Same-Sex Couples Have Civil Partnerships

USA Today published an article yesterday in which Sir Elton John spoke about his position on Proposition 8. John clarified his position on Prop 8 while attending the annual benefit for the Elton John AIDS Foundation. He was accompanied by his longtime partner David Furnish, whom he joined in a civil union in 2005. John was quoted as saying, "We're not married. Let's get that right. We have a civil partnership. What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people off, the word marriage."

John went on to emphasize that civil unions grant same-sex couples the same rights afforded to married heterosexual couples. He stated, "I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership...the word marriage, I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."

I've been writing Oprah since the day after the election about this topic. On a day that so many Americans stayed up to watch and celebrate a turn in our history, in our attitude, in our hopes, in our beliefs and in our spirit, I had to turn the TV off. It was simply too painful for me to watch amendment after amendment being past in states like Florida, California, Arizona & Arkansas. I think what shocked me more than anything was the fact that surfaced after all ballots were counted in California. Seven out ten African Americans that went to the polls to vote for Obama voted Yes on Prop 8. A community of people that have suffered the great injustices and ignorance of a country have themselves put the oppression that their ancestors suffered on another community. Or that there is a church in this country that spent millions of dollars to support a hateful campaign on a group of people that they just don't understand. I am baffled by the disregard of humanity that still lives in this country, and can only hope that the election of Obama is hope or proof that we can change the masses.

And no one has expressed their sentiments better than Keith Olbermann, and he's not even gay. That gives me hope.

Thank you Oprah for bringing attention to this subject.

Indeed, the state did vote to take away the right for same sex couples to marry. It seems that the GLBT community is the last segment of the population that it is OK to descriminate against. If it had been any other group, this would never had made it to the ballot, let alone pass. Simply because the majority votes for something doesn't make it right. The majority of the proponents of this initiative is religion-based. The constitution calls for separation of church and state. This is a clear violation of that. We have the courts to protect the rights of minority communities. Hopefully, the courts will do their job and protect the rights of same sex couples. I am 56 years old and tired of being a second class citizen. Even though my husband and I have virtually the same protections under our domestic partnership, separate is not equal. Marriage is not only about children. If it were, then heterosexual married couples should be required to have children; a rediculous concept.

Elton John: Heterosexual Couples Have Marriage, Same-Sex Couples Have Civil Partnerships

USA Today published an article yesterday in which Sir Elton John spoke about his position on Proposition 8. John clarified his position on Prop 8 while attending the annual benefit for the Elton John AIDS Foundation. He was accompanied by his longtime partner David Furnish, whom he joined in a civil union in 2005. John was quoted as saying, "We're not married. Let's get that right. We have a civil partnership. What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people off, the word marriage."

John went on to emphasize that civil unions grant same-sex couples the same rights afforded to married heterosexual couples. He stated, "I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership¿the word marriage, I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."

How incredibly poignant is this, that a celebrity is speaking out. There is NOTHING being taken away here. It's just the word. If same sex couples want to be together, then by all means be together, just don't call it married.

There is nothing fearful about protecting families and marriage. But let me understand something, are you calling being gay or lesbian a different "race" of people? Do they have their own country they come from?

Please understand that no one is telling anyone else who they can or can not fall in love with, that is completely untrue. Same sex couples have the SAME EXACT rights and protections as any other couple... the SAME EXACT. Is it not true that Gay and Lesbian people are different? It's not their color, or accent, or even the way they dress... it's their ACTIONS, and that's different, it's NOT marriage. Be together, love each other, live long happy lives together as partners, as civil unions enjoying the SAME EXACT protections and rights.

Once again, the VOICE of the people of California was heard LOUD AND CLEAR. Now we have to deal cry babies who didn't their way. What in world would have happened (heaven for bid) if Obama didn't win the election! Talk about cry babies. Oh but wait... I believe it was those same people who came out and voted FOR Obama who also voted YES on 8. So THANK YOU to all the voters out there, you rock!