Hi mchamplin..

Yes! There is no one who is equal to God, He is unique, so much so, that He is alone at the very top and there He will stay. Life depends on him, everything in existence does..

You have to look at the "spiritual' aspect, the qualities that we possess that we have already..No! If You read Genesis, Adam would have been on his own .. God created the "Human family" then, to "Procreate" and be a part of the creation and appreciate in love, just as "God created all his creatures", He loves them as a "Father".. The Family unit is created by God and made with that in mind.. They would be "genderless".. We need to remember that the "He" title is because "Adam was created before Eve and of God's "Order". This is respectful to God's governance..

Peace

~Ruth

because jessus represent the creation of god , thev good side , he is in everything whith the father , the good side who is in babilon , but like a man the humans will know the other son of god , the son of the man who will smash the snake had whith his leg . the other son will be enough powerfull to destroy satan , he will represent the good and the evil both of theme in one . god will respect the rulles of life , he will be born like a man , he will be created by life and he will create the babilon , and he will be destroyed in his last day , ARMAGHEDON . the other son will not respect those rules , and he can be imortal . satan represent the midle way , god is on extremis . in apocalips are presented two olives , one is his whife and the ather is his son . both of theme will be humiliated because in the real life they will be respected , and both of theme will passed on the new warld . today rulles who are kow on the earth will be changed , the things are not how do you think

god sais in the old tesstament : DO NOT PUT , AND DO NOT TAKE NOTHING FROM WHAT I SAY TO YOU .

NOBODY ASKED IF YOU ALREADY DID THAT . SAW IS NOT MY FAUGHT

ON THE BEGHINING IT WAS THE WARD AND AFTHER THAT GOD ARIVED , AND GOD BECAME THE WARD AND THE WARD BECAME GOD ; OR ON THE BEGHINING IT WAS GOD AND AFTER THAT ARIVED THE WARD , AND THE WARD BECAME GOD AND GOD BECAME THE WARD : THERE ARE BOTH OF THEME TRUE DEPENDS HOW YOU WILL SEE.

There appears to be some controversy over the "beginning" as recorded in the Bible. Genesis appears to discuss it more thoroughly than the way John begins. Genesis gets clear into Chapt. 15 before the "word" appears. Maybe we should all read it again so we can discuss its interpretation on the same page. Does anyone else have a specific comment on my original intent of this thread? Why is the plural used? Thanks, PJLL, MC

I am not reading all the others before I post this, so sorry if it is a repeat.

Jesus the only begotten son of God, but he is the first born among many brethren on this earth.

And you mention the sons of God marrying the daughters of men. I think there is a lot we don't understand about what is in scripture. There are lots of possibilities that could be or not.

I think in the time we live right today we are going to find out a lot of things that were mysteries that are being revealed today.

No! I don't think there is anything NEW under the sun, I think it is there for us and always has been, but some of us have lived in fear of the unknown and now we are going to get out of fear, and fear God instead of mans ways.

When I say FEAR GOD. I don't me to be afraid of him, but to honor and respect, Revere HIM for who he is, OUR CREATOR, or FATHER GOD. If we so choose to except his Grace and Mercy. His love, not mans.

I think in the days to come we are all going to be suprised at the awesomeness of the Great and Mighty, ONE GOD, ONE LOVE, ONE FATHER OF ALL.

If you had a great father here on earth as an example then you will understand why, our HEAVENLY FATHER poured out his wrath on the children of disobedient. If you had an abusive father and a lozy example for a father then I hope you can find peace in one who is a great father and example of great love.

Eph 5:5-11
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
(KJV)

Enough said, hope you have had lots of comfirmation to the fact that on Jesus being begotten and first born.

Blessings

Hi jeaniejone! Thank you for your reply! Can't say I blame you for not reading the others. It does get long and off topic. You appear to believe that begotten is important as does mornglow. That is also how I was raised to understand it. You used "firstborn" are you implying there were others? If so, on what do you base that? I agree, there is plenty we don't understand about what is in scripture! I would be interested in hearing about those possibilities from everyone. It does appear that we are living in a time where mysteries may be revealed to us. It has also been my observation that most of us human kind fear the unknown and tend to stick with what at least gives us the illusion of being "safe" as defined by our own perceptions. To me, "fear" in the Biblical sense means to believe in the power of so God fearing people would then be people who believe in the power of God. By that definition, only those who believe Satan, the devil, the dark forces etc has/have more power than God need to be concerned about them. If one believes that God is the 3Os, then nothing is more powerful than God = nothing to fear! For me it follows then that people who are so concerned with the power of Satan etc. in a sense are without realizing it worshiping the darkness by giving it power. If the darkness is only the absence of light, then it is nothing - so what's to worry about? I for one rejoice in the awesomeness of God right here in the Now! When you moved on to Eph., an issue came up for me. I believe that if I want to follow Christ, I need to know what he says. For whatever reason I am called to get folks reading the words attributed to Jesus in the Bible - not his disciples but his own. Still, for the sake of discussion, what do you think Eph. 5:6 "Let no man deceive you with vain words" means? What did Jesus himself have to say about being deceived? Peace, Joy, Love & Light, MC

Thanks MC very easy reading, thanks.

Here is my understanding of begotten and firstborn. Now it don't make it fact, just my understanding, if anyone else has something that is more accurate, that is possible. I will have to look into Eph to see what you are talking about, I can't go off just one scripture.

I do want anyone to know that when I quote a scripture I would really like for anyone to read the whole chapter. Just one verse does not always reflect the whole meaning of the chapter. anyhow here is the scripture's and after reading them, I think they could possible be refering to the same thing, I read like 20 scriptures with those words in.

I always have thought of begotten as the only one God sent to earth born of Him in the womb of a woman. I have always and still believe in the virgin birth. And even studying today that still is truth to me. NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

Then firstborn I see it as Jesus being the firstborn of many believers in the fact that he also is the first to be raised from the dead, and we to will be raised.

Now in all since I just reread all these scriptures. I believe that the only begotten was made in reference to Jesus to show lineage from the Spiritual side of life. And that firstborn of many brethren are those who except him, we would be his brethren.

John 1:12-14
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as only begotten of Father,) full of grace and truth. (KJV) I also believe that the Father, and the Son, dewell in me, today in the personage of the Holy Spirit. And that I do behold his glory, the glory as the only begotten or firstborn from the spirit world or the heavenlies.

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (KJV)

Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Ok now this is my question to anyone who reads better then I. I just saw in this "that he might be the firstborn among " is that talking about Jesus or is that talking about those whom he knew before hand? Hummm!!!!!!!!
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
(KJV)

Col 1:18
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Not this one I read when you read the whole chapter that it is Jesus being raised from the dead as firstborn.
(KJV)

Blessings and I love friendly discussions, and you or anyone are more then welcome to agree or disagree, I don't mind, we are free to have good discussions if we so choose. Hope there are some great ones with your last question on Eph. 5:6

Blessings Jeanie

Vain words are empty, void, idol words. And they are filled with power, good or bad.

You know MC you just opened up more and more things for me. I love it. When you get into vain words, you are opening the door to another big discussion, depends also on how much you want to find out on it.

Words are very important, we have been trained or raised to think that they are just words, actually most of them meaningless to our lives yet as far as most know or understand. But there is so much more. They will bring life or death to a person. They bring curses or blessings to us.

Oh my goodness, I just reread that scripture, and don't know if you are seeing what I am but, if words bring life and death, blessings and curses. Could it be? That we have been deceived by empty, vain words. And this is what is causing so much sickness, pain and death.

I don't know if I am putting this in correct laugage to what I am seeing as I read and write this. but think about our words. And John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

Notice the WORD, and then there is a scripture that says Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it (KJV)

This could get deep just how much discussion are you looking for in this.

Eph 5:6-8 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (KJV)

Awesome I love this type of discussion.

Jeanie

One big question is there anyone else on here tonight?

I looked that up where it says "there is none beside me." This word is bil` adey (bil-ad-ay'); or (bal-ad-ay'); and it could also say, except, or besides:

I hope someone comes on to chat.

Jeanie

Good Morning, Jeaniejone! I just read your posts & truly regret I was not available to respond to them last night. Believe me, although no one actually responded to your post on this thread, you were not alone!!! Thank you so very much for sharing a very personal experience of awakening with us all!!! I also love discussions where parties really listen to what the other says vs. spends all their time figuring out where they themselves are going to use to rebutt it! I believe we are on the same page with that. As far how far to go with this - how far do you feel called to take it? I am not disagreeing with "Yes to both, but he was also refering to the spiritual image, it was what God put within us that brought life, the spirit man. Think about this that was in the heaven realm before the earth was created as we know it today," but could you describe how you came to think of it that way? Thanks so much. If anyone else wants to jump in on this you are most welcome. I welcome all opinions. I think we each have a piece of the puzzle & if we begin to put them all together who knows what will happen! Peace Joy Love Light MC

gnaw don't regret it. For me sometimes talking to myself for awhile is good for me I get really great answers.

MC I don't know who you are, but after I read this earlier today, then had to leave no time to respond. It was as if I had heard your voice before. Now I know that is strange, but for some reason while coming home from shopping, I was hearing the words you wrote go through by head and I actually thought I was hearing your voice from the tone you write. Now that is freaky. You explain that one.

Anyhow, I may have lost you somewhere in your writing, I will put my words in blue or something if you would help me to know what part you are refering to. OK?

Because of fear, in 30 years it has only been since I have posted on Oprah board and listened to the classes of tolle that I have not been afraid to begin to share my story. There were many people involved who knew something was wrong, they knew I was digging deep in scripture but no one could stop me nor did they try.

My oldest daughter age 9 at the time has told those who do know what happened how frightened she was, she even said she was afraid to sleep she wanted to take a knife to bed with her, cause she thought mommy was going to do something to hurt them. When I came out of it, it was as if I had only slept for the night, friends said I need to go to the dr. I refused I was alive and I felt fine. Then.

I was so frightened of the bible after that, my sunday school teacher spent almost a year helping me to be able to even open it to read it again. Very few people know what I saw, I was afraid of what I heard and saw cause preachers didn't preach it. Then in 1999 some preachers started preaching it and I am so excited that I am no longer alone and what I saw that was right was true, if I would have died I would have missed out on so much more that God had planned for me in my life time here, and there is so much more that happens yet this year, another part of the story sorry.

Up untill Jan 2007 I had always believed that my 3 year old daugther had woke me that afternoon. Then one day I was just talking with the Lord and he told me that I didn't have a 3 year old daughter back then. I was stuned. So I sat and figured up approximent time this happened and the ages of my daughters I was in ah. One was 9 the other was only 5 or 6 months old.

Anyhow then I knew that an angel had awoke me. then in Feb of 2007 I was sharing this story with an internet friend and as soon as I said my 3 year old. She yeld out no it wasn't no it wasn't it, it was an angel. I was like wait I didn't get to tell you. She then desribe what the angel looked like. And it was the same angel that awoke me. awesome.

Anyhow I really need to get my book written, and I believe it is time. Now to just do it. I had no writing abilities at all, my girls would always write a letter for me if I wanted to send one. Now in the last 2 years of writing on another forum and a couple of friends from there helping me, I am getting better.

Then I shared a little with a friend on here, she (skay) said don't worry about comma's and period's just put some paragraphs. So here I am.

Well that don't really answer the question except a little. I think I know which part you were refering to but want to make sure. OK?

I will wait to here from you. I lost this thread for a day couldn't remember where I wrote what I wrote. Hope you can understand my writing.

Blessings Jeanie.

MC I have one question? are you male or female? Now don't tell me both, I know we are in spirit. I am curious because of the voice I heard as I was hearing you this afternoon.

kind of feel like a dip or something, after rereading what you wrote and going up and reading what I wrote previous. I didn't notice the quotes in your writing. Yes I can describe how I came to think that.

You go back to Gen 1:1 after what I posted previous, I can't write it all now. but I think I put it in another board we were doing Gen 1 but people come in and threw everything off track so it just stopped.

Ill try to do this in short. Will have to explain further later. I have over 40 people coming tomorrow, so pretty busy.

To long to write will see if I can find some I wrote before then post for you. Jeanie

during the time of study a year or so later when I was able to read scripture again. Now I really can explain this better but this is being really cut down.

I once again started with what I had seen in Gen 1,2, 3 in my mind I had seen

Gen 1:1-31 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:1-31 to me this was God creating all things. The heavenlies.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day

Gen 2:1-4

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. I think Gen 2 should begin here. because now it changes to what looks like could be the spirit realm/ or paridise where it know could be Jesus domain or kingdom after his resurection. because it changes to the generations of the heavens and the earth and now speaks the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.(KJV) Now it made sence to me that this was the soul realm and then as you go on, when adam and eve gave away there dominion of the garden.

NOW PLEASE DON'T freak out if you have been taught that God killed an animial and clothed them with skin. During my search and since I have seen over and over that may not be the case. As you go on to chapter 3 it turns into the earth as we know it today.

Gen 3:17
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. Now here is where I don't want you to freak out. coats of skins to me is not animal skins. In the last few years I have found that it could possible be when they actually were given blood and skin on them like we have today. My reason for believing that is because in the 1st chapter God breathed into Adam and that was his life sorce. Then when Eve was taken from adams rib she recieved life also by the spirit, and was flesh and bone. NOW THINK ABOUT THIS. When Jesus came back after his resurrection he was what we call a ghost he could go through doors and he was flesh and bone, but no blood. Following me. There are a couple other places when God brought life back to bones but there is no mention of blood and they lived. JUST MY THOUGTHS.
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
(KJV)

Now in the last 30 years I have learned that there are some who believe that Gen 1:1 was creation PERIOD. God Kingdom, realm. Then between v1 and v2 there was the first flood, and that is when satan fell.

They go to Isa to fill in the blanks of Satans fall.

Then verse 2 they believe that God created the earth as we know it today. So from that I have come to believe that.

Chapter 1:1 is Gods thrown and kingdom.

!:2 to 2:4 is the Garden our our Spirit, then on to 3 or the fall of man, it was changed to the earth and heavens as we know it today.

STILL YOU HAVE TO PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER. AND we become SPIRIT, SOUL and BODY. Something like that.

Now don't know if that explains how I come to my thoughts of this, but as close as I can in writing.

By the way I do understand how everyone comes up thinking animal skin because they think that was the first blood sacrific and that could be why they sacrificed animials. But no where in scripture have we found anything that states that it was actual animial skins that God put on them.

They were spirit beings in spirit cloths until God put an earth suit on them so they could live in this earth. Wasn't like that before.

OK not looking for a debate, only showing what I found and why I see it that way.

Blessings Jeanie.

Hello again jeaniejone! Thanks so much for your replies! If you heard me saying "jeaniejone where are you?" that was me! Sorry we keep missing each other but we seem to have a different schedule for being on the board. Please don't let that discourage you as I am quite interested in your interpretaion. How I wish I could make paragraphs, spell check, and all the other features that appear above the post message box but they don't work with my browser. I've tried to fix the problem to no avail. Sorry everyone but it appears that what I post comes out in a block no matter how I try to send it. As for your writing style, spelling, etc. I am far more interested in what you have to say than how you say it. It helps me to know what particular scriptures people base their points on so I can look them up and read them in the context of not only that specific chapter but within the context of other books of the Bible as well. That's why I ask for specific scripture references. It helps me understand the influences on one's interpretation. I found your story of your life interesting and thanks for sharing it. It appears you have found using what you once thought of as horrible as an opportunity to grow closer to God helpful!!! Me, too!!! There are many things in what you wrote about as you described your interpretation of scripture that I have actually never been taught and have not even considered. Thanks for the food for thought! I think I am beginning to see why you think as you do. I certainly love your enthusiasm and the thought you put into understanding scripture. I wish everyone did that!!!!! I have to be away from the board soon but I want you to know that when you post replies to your own posts on this thread that's fine with me! I enjoy participating in your reasoning out process. Peace, Joy, Love & Light MC

Thanks MC, I will keep posting I love to talk, will just check back now and then.

I downloaded spell check for firefox, Micro and I will try to find out where I got it from. It was for another forum that I I had the same problems but since I downloaded that it works great, I will see if I can figure out where I got it. be back.

Jeanie