While I can not claim that we have an issue with extinction, I do know that our euthansia rate according to Animal People (which is not affiliated with any outside organization) shows a significant decline.

1970-23.4 million euthanized

1985-17.8 million euthanized

2004-4.9 million euthanized

If this is the trend then we need to consider why are we stagnating at 4.9 million in the last 3 years when we should have according to numbers decreased yearly by 1 million each year? That is something to consider.

Another concept we need to consider is why area's like Va., NH, Mass., VT, (and most other New England States) have euthansia rates of 35% or less in most cases, do other areas like have euthanasia rates of 90% or greater?

Los Angeles has seen a decrease in one year of 22% in their euthanasia rate and a steady decline (according to their own reports) since 2001 a total drop of over 65%, why do people still claim the situation is not fixing itself, not working? And that more laws are needed to solve the problem? Why does Los Angeles need mandatory Spay Neuter laws if the situation is improving significantly each year?

Why is it that cats (feral) are not Spayed-Neutered and released back into their enviorment to live happily and are instead euthanized and included in the overpopulation numbers?

A Sciene Daily report shows (July 2006) that since 1996 the number of dogs that all shelters take in have declined by an average of 16% but the number of cats increased by 20%. Why? The same report shows that euthanasia rates of dogs have decreased by 39% in the same time period but cats rates have increased by 14%? Why? And the cat adoption rates are up by 40% since 1996 so why the increase in euthanasia?

Why is it that 97% of all bully breeds (mostly Am Staffs or their common name Pit Bulls) euthanized?

Nancy

Kathy wrote: This thread is all over the place people must be running out of ideas about how to end suffering in mass farming of dogs

I agree with you that the thread is expanded, but I learn a lot about the thought processes and beliefs of the other posters.

For example, Thomas mentioned that he fears that we are facing companion animal extinction due to low population. As I have stated all along, some people (Thomas in particular) have absolutely no comprehension of the pet overpopulation problem and/or a few simply do not care. His mind is made up, don't confuse him with the facts, don't ask him to open his eyes and look around.

The Oprah show about puppy mills also featured some dogs in pounds and their euthanasia. I believe that few Americans want healthy, adoptable pets to be killed in the numbers that currently are occurring.

The death row website dogsindanger lists a small number of the dogs in pounds Looking at the dogs posted there, and those under Memoriam on that site, shows a different picture than Thomas sees. And those are only the pets that pounds have to hold, some have no required holding period, therefore they do not post any pets. For example, no pound in PA lists their dogs on the dogsindanger website, because PA only has a 48 hour holding period, and that is only for strays. All owner surrenders can be killed anytime after arrival, if and when the staff feels they must or wants to do that. And many, many more pets exist in society, where they are not wanted, creating a burden to their current homes and neighborhoods, and to society in general.

One of the rescues I work with got involved with a pound in a different state. We normally do not take from outside our area, because the immediate area keeps us too busy. But once another local rescue was bringing 2 pups from death row in another state. She asked us to take some, since the transport was coming the hundreds and hundreds of miles and lovely dogs were going to die on Thursday. We said we could take 4, small, friendly healthy.

Every Thursday morning this particular pound kills every pet that has been there for 7 days or more. They do very few adoptions. They are a pound. Adoption is not a priority. The staff that works there hates killing nice animals, but they do not make the rules. One Wednesdays, a local group goes in and pulls the dogs that have rescues promising to take them. 8 dogs were pulled and 6 brought to us: a beagle mom, her two beagle-springer mixed 12 week old pups, a large pomeranian mix. a miniature black lab 22 pounds, but otherwise just like a very sane lab, nonbarky, people focused, retrieved perfectly, perfect offleash, etc and a 12 week old purebred Airedale puppy (ears and tail docked) . All were free (we had to pay $10 each for a rabies vac,) all were very much worth saving, and all would have become landfill or used precious petroleum to incinerate.

On the bright side: You do not have to go to a shelter to save a pet. Caring humans can look around, reach out to their community and rescue a pet. Oprah's website has links to good resources. We believe that for every good home, there is at least one pet waiting to be rescued. Many pets are free and some even come with supplies, crates, etc. Most newspapers have classified pet sections, where you can post a "Wanted: to adopt, young healthy friendly dog. 20-40 lbs, must be good with infants "etc. whatever you are looking for. If you are uncertain of this method, you could hire a behaviorist to help you evaluate the dog. And then, immediately have the new dog fixed.

If all, who care, give the clear and consistent lifesaving message of "Only adopt, Do not buy" the mass farming could be greatly reduced this summer. We do not need more laws, we need more education for humans.

Kathy,

The AKC is not a policing agency. It is a breed registry. It holds stud books and insures the correctness of the books. Yes it is the only breed regsitry that does inspections but those inspections are only to enforce the correctness of its stud books. It does not police public policy and SHOULD not.

But you are correct I believe that breeders themselves need some form of regulating agency of their own to ensure that abusive establishments and owners become a thing of the past.

Nancy

Readthis:

Then PA needs to read the federal statutes: Federal Pet Protection Act Citation: 7 USC 2158 which requires ALL shelters to hold dogs for a period of five days before ANYTHING can be done with the dog. If they are indeed euthanizing or dispensing with the animals in 48 hours, they are breaking the law. Someone needs to draw their attention to that. Federal Law ALWAYS supercedes state and local laws.

And the shelter/pound you describe needs an education. Adoption should always be the goal and saving each animals should be their job not euthanizing them. We have been euthanizing since the 1850's the only thing we changed is the the method. Maybe it is time to consider a different method of "over population" control. Instead of spending the money to euthanize spend it on education, training, adoption, volunteers etc...

Nancy

Thanks for the good post.

What's more: The AKC has been no better than the HSUS, as far as I can see. They could have prevented this all from becoming a problem (wholesale breeding with desperate conditions) had they been concerned about the AKC endorsement and what it stood for, instead of more and more $$$. Every non profit that pays its staff 6 digit salaries should be held accountable. No excuses!

Yes, there are other registries but AKC is the biggest and the first. If AKC had some foresight, and cared, AKC could have said all along, "AKC is the registry that cares, and guarantees the quality and the conditions the dogs live." But they choose not to go that route. I live in PA, and we have gotten many many ex-pet shop dogs and requests to take Mass produced dogs and 90%+ are AKC, only a few are ACA.

Dogs with splayed feet from growing up walking on wire, dogs with bizarre personalities from multiple generations of breeding without care to personality. 45 pound Shih tzu, scrappy snippy Labs with curly tails like a husky, etc. all AKC registered. Shame on AKC.

Kathy writes:"This thread is all over the place people must be running out of ideas about how to end suffering in mass farming of dogs."

Sadly when positive methods are posted (and I have done so over and over, 2 pages back for one) they are totally ignored, instead of bantered about, changed,modified, challegned or discussed at any length. So I would venture to guess that most people on both sides of the arguments really have no intention of working the problem out.

And while Thomas is brash about it he is correct we will never be able to totally "cure" the suffering problem. People suffer daily with incurable illnesses, homelessness, starvation, loss of work, etc... Animals in nature suffer hit by cars, rabies, lymes, cancer, starvation, loss of home, attack by a predator etc... Domestic animals suffer homelessness and euthanasia.. But domestic animals have it a whole lot better than wild animals. They have us, vets, and a multi billion dollar industry that surrounds their care and health. So we can lessen the suffering but we will never totally cure it. It is not possible.

And ultimately the only way to dispense with "puppy mills" (abusive kennels) is to stop the demand for their animals.

Nancy

I do think the AKC should be more involved. perhaps they could be at the very least used as a consulting force with inspectors who can call their experts in when suspect breeding pedigrees are found and they could research. If people involved in breeding are not utilized then the legit breeders themselves will be the ones punished by rules and regulations and that is the last thing they or anyone else besides AR and PETA want. The AKC should at least care if they have a bigger responsibility. This shouldn't be up to voters who have no clue what they are voting for.

Good post and good researching. Thank you!

I do think that in some ways the overpopulation situation has improved. Perhaps with so many more rescues, the pounds have a little more leeway.

But I still contend that the pounds do not show the whole picture. In PA, many counties do not have a single shelter. In those areas the method of pet control is S-S-S, shoot them, shovel them and shut up. Ok maybe if he's a good shot, but what happens when he doesn't kill the stray outright? And that's sad for the human owner if the dog is a wonderful pet, or even a service animal, who pushed out a screen door three miles away and is lost.

And as fast as the population can explode, we who care must be continuously be on guard. A unspayed dog produces a litter, which all go out unspayed, and in a short time the numbers are in the hundreds.

The dog problem is horrible, the cat problem is beyond measure. Cats can reproduce so much faster than dogs do. And yet, we still have cat breeders making more cats, more odd cats with mashed-in faces, deformed ears and crippled legs. Also, I think 30 years ago cats first came in heat at 6-8 months, now we have proof that some come in heat at 4-5 months.

Re: Pits high euthanasia rate. The overpopulation of pits makes their lives of little value. Hardly anyone I know got their pit from the Shelter, all came from the neighbors dog's litter. Or they took in the stray pit. In PA, insurance companies routinely deny coverage to homes with pits, Rottys, GSD, Dobes. And basically no one who acquires a pit has it fixed. I'm not sure why. I try to educate, but well, people are people. We do have local organizations that provide free spay/neuter for pits, but the humans still must want to have it done.

Another thing while I am on this rant, make examples of people who are hoarders and mass breeders who use cruel methods for keeping and breeding their animals. Send them to jail for cruelty, prohibit them from owning animals, raise fines for people in cities who have unlicensed animals and enforce leash laws increase fines so they are astronomical for a second offense for a leash law. Make a high fine for a first offense so people will think about keeping better track of their animals. Force people to be responsible. Raise license fees in communities for people keeping unspayed or neutered pets unless they show proof of showing their animals or proof they are a non mill breeder. Make the fees high enough per animal that it will cover the cost of spay and neutering in shelters. In those cases make them license the animals but have it be a show or breeding license that covers them as a blanket and gives them permission to have varying numbers of dogs if they agree tot take back the dogs they place in homes for any reason. Give rescuers a break and encourage rescue by working with them.

Cats do not have a season like dogs do. Queens go into season only when a King is around. The problem is they can go immediately back into season after nursing if a king is anywhere nearby. Hence the importance of trap neuter release programs. I only know this because I got a lecture one day by a cat breeder. So you can have numerous unspayed females who never have a season as long as there are no intact males in the neighborhood.

Nancy

Kathy, I thought you said you didn't want any new laws?

The painfully frustrating thing is that none of our statistics are reliable. We don't know if we are "stagnating." I don't know whose information "Animal People" is using.

Frankly, I haven't been given a whole lot that I can buy into here. What exactly constitutes "puppy mill"? I rebel against the term, period. Even if a reasonable definition is found, Oprah's show meant any commercial breeder, period. We'll hear about exceptions later when they have pumped the price of a dog high enough. We also have the fact that the shelters bring in about 300,000 dogs a year and you don't here the HSUS going on about that. It's just a new Black Beauty Ranch.

I have legitimate reasons to fear the loss of freedom to breed dogs. We do not want a basic right to be at the mercy of McDog or Waldog, which is where this is heading, at best. Every indicator that I have that I can rely on tells me that "controls" are likely to create a worse situation than we already have. Those who would wind up running the show shouldn't run the show.

Animal People are neutral. They are not for animal rights nor are they for breeder rights. They tend to stand in the middle of any dog/cat related issue. They use the numbers gotten from the shelter paperwork. Which granted maybe tainted. (could include feral animals which could never be someone's pet, could include owner turn in's who need euthanasia, could include the sick with no hope of life etc...) But we still have a downward trend regardless of how tainted the numbers are. The downward swing is VERY significant. 65% decrease. This is all within less than one human generation. So the #'s specifically are unimportant the trend and percentage is what is important.

My take. We all can agree there can never be a zero kill rate. There will always be ferals (they have been around since long before the dark ages), but hopefully most of the feral cats can be trapped neutered,vaccinated and released (therefore controlled to some degree), there will always be people who can not afford euthanasia by their vet, there will always be agressive dogs that need euthanasia due to personality issues, there will always be dogs hit by cars etc.... Now we figure in the population growth. According to the US Census 1970 to 2000 had an increase of more than 90 million people. If we continue that increase at the same rate for the next 7 years 31.5 million more on top of the 90 million. That is 121.5 million more people in those 27 years. The numbers then actually show an even larger decrease in percentage of euthanasia per numbers of people. (The 2007 projected population of the US is 300 million, 4.9 million euthaniasia rate of HSUS ) If I did the numbers right and I am not very good at math so someone needs to recheck it for every one million people in the US 16,000 dogs are euthanized at a shelter. Put like that the numbers are not as daunting and is in a fixable range. I am not saying healthy adoptable animals are not still dying they are but it is not nearly as epidemic as we think considering our population growth and the decrease in euthanasia rates during those 27 years. And furthermore the epidemic is actually in isolated areas.

Now why does it feel epidemic:

1. Because we care.

2. Because so few of us are actually physically dealing with the situation.

3. Because we refuse to change our mindset that the only way to deal with the problem is to euthanize.

4. Because we are still using feral cats in the mix instead of spaying an neutering them and releasing them back into the enviorment (where they can control the rat-mice population)

5. Too many pits are being produced and/or the breed is not being properly handled in the shelter/pound arena.

6. Because TOO little money is being spent on the problem.

Someone please recheck my math.

Nancy

(Also don't bash me since I personally feel they all should and could be saved. I am just throwing this out there for us to consider and discuss)

Kathy,

You will find that most people who register with the AKC would like them to be a little more proactive in investigating large production breeders. We would also like them to be in the forefront of legislation related to dogs. Sadly, what the people want is rarely what the organization does. But anyone who knows of any AKC registered puppies being raised at a "puppy mill" or abusive breeder needs to report that fact to the AKC. If enough complaints come in the AKC will send out an investigator. But they like the USDA have very few investigators.

Nancy