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Click to view miolorenzo's profile miolorenzo 18 posts since
Apr 8, 2008
Reply 75. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 10, 2008 5:46 PM
Again A Warm Hello GMWACO, I see that you are now saying those who have embraced these wonderful ideas of ET's brought to us by Oprah are considering themselves to be God. I don't know what book you've read or what monday classes you've seen but I have not heard one person mention themselves to be "the God" (the one and only source from which we all sprang) . There is a higher part of us that is directly connected to ALL THAT IS (GOD) and we are absolutely a part of the consciousness of ALL THAT IS. If you would put half the energy into connecting with your higher self as you do defending what your beliefs are.... you would see this. From this point on I will no longer participate in any of your posts (too draining), I do wish you well and hope someday you will know the joy myself and many others are experiencing. Take care.
Click to view gmwaco's profile gmwaco 355 posts since
Mar 28, 2008
Reply 76. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 10, 2008 7:20 PM
in response to: dcmvandy
Thank you for those wonderful quotes! They are very uplifting. I appreciate your time in posting those.

May God Bless you.
Click to view gmwaco's profile gmwaco 355 posts since
Mar 28, 2008
Reply 77. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 10, 2008 7:25 PM
in response to: 7043922053
Wow, with all that anger, it looks like ET's book isn't working for you. HMMMMMM.

This thread was not started out of painbody or ego. Just pure love. I won't apologize for the problems you have with it for if the Truth hurts, then the truth hurts.
Click to view gmwaco's profile gmwaco 355 posts since
Mar 28, 2008
Reply 78. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 10, 2008 7:37 PM
in response to: hope2dream
Hi. I appreciate you asking the questions. Why don't you go to the thread "A Pastor's Post" and pose that question. I think he could answer it for you. I don't want to answer something incorrectly. But, he is very kind and patient and I think you will like him. Sorry I couldn't help you better.
Click to view 7043922053's profile 7043922053 2 posts since
Apr 9, 2008
Reply 79. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 12, 2008 10:39 AM
in response to: truthwrite
Sister, God does speak to my heart. How else would it beat?
Click to view jesus4me's profile jesus4me 2,380 posts since
Feb 26, 2008
Reply 80. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 12, 2008 10:46 AM
in response to: 7043922053
Yes God speaks to my heart as well. Everyday i wake up and He is still with me. He makes my days brighter and full of purpose and love.He is so wonderful. I am blessed to have God in my life. love to all Debbie
Click to view beausky's profile beausky 1 posts since
Apr 11, 2008
Reply 81. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 12, 2008 10:54 AM
wow wow wow. everyone needs to chill out. these message boards (i'm guessing) we're not opened so christian believers and non christian believers can bash each other about what is the TRUTH. i've read several of these posts and it's disturbing of how defensive you all are being. did jesus sit there and argue with people about religion, no. he was peaceful and taught his word. so why are guys going ON AND ON AND ON AND ON about your religion. it's ridiculous. you either agree with the book or you don't. if you don't stop coming on this site and freaking out. it's not a big deal. this book was not written so people could argue till they are blue in the face. it was written for those who are seeking spiritual council and the answers to their never ending questions of their existence. sorry peeps, but if you were really at peace with yourself you wouldn't need to jump on this website and take your religion out on the oprah website. chill out..seriously. if you do then maybe you can use the word peace correctly.
Click to view smjack2077's profile smjack2077 10 posts since
Apr 11, 2008
Reply 82. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 12, 2008 12:33 PM
The problem people have with Christians is the inherent sense of condescension.
The “we’re right, you’re wrong” air that surrounds your speech.
Offend means to upset, annoy or displease. You can be offended and still be tolerant.
Stating that one is offended by what you say does not mean they are intolerant.
So let’s put the shoe on the other foot. If someone was sharing their faith with you and they told you:
Our belief is that any faith that does not claim Jesus as Savior is not real faith.
our belief is that our way is the only way.
Our belief is that Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father. If He is not accepted, then God is not accessible.

Do you not see how that is offensive? You are saying that their beliefs are not real.
When we are sharing their faith (something we are told to do and feel compelled to do), we are not judging you.
I assume you use the word Judging in the sense of condemnation. To judge means to form an opinion or conclusion about something. So you are judging when you say that your faith is the only way. If you mean condemnation, telling someone that God is not accessible to them if they do not believe is judging.
Tolerance means to “allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference” Your faith tells you that “our way is the only way” . Sharing your faith is intolerant in it’s nature. It is interfering with the beliefs of others by telling them that their beliefs are wrong.
Let’s look at tolerance in another way. You have an acquaintance that you hang out with. They are always commenting on how they dress better than you. Their car is better. Their house is better. Your job is going to lead you no where.
So I ask, would you become friends with this acquaintance? Would you ever hang out with them again? Would you even associate with them any more?

So, we can know for certainty that you don't have what we have because Jesus is our Lord.
So we know that many Christians state that non-christians have no morals. That non-christians are deceiving themselves if they think they are at peace. Because only true peace comes from Jesus. This is offensive speak.


I'm far from arrogant because I believe that I am a sinner and I needed a Savior.
Just because you are self-deprecating doesn’t mean you are not being arrogant.
If you truly knew what we did, you would be just like us.
This is an inherently arrogant and condescending statement.
...why not give my Savior a chance?
How do you know they haven’t? In America, (Europe, Canada, Mexico) Christianity is the dominant religion. Which means that most know about the faith. A great majority of atheist (if not a majority) are ex-christians. I’d say a lot of the people on these boards are ex-christians. These aren’t people who haven’t given your Savior a chance. They’ve given it a chance and it didn’t work for them.
Yes, we are accepting your beliefs for what they are. This is double speak. The word “accepting” in your sentence is negated by the phrase “for what they are”
Accept means “to believe or come to recognize as valid or correct.” Do you recognize that Islam is valid or correct? Buddhism, Paganism, Etc....
If God inspired the work, then nothing He didn't want in there is going to be in there.
How do you know that he did? What gives you the right to say that this book has nothing that God wouldn't want in there?
Some also have a problem with contradictory nature of your speech
We don't decide what we like in the Bible and what we don't. We also don't have some set of rigid rules we have to follow either.
But you do. I won’t go into the old testament because that’s too easy; and you can shrug it off as thing you don’t have to follow because Jesus came. Even though he said , “Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments (the law) and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Unless you believe that slavery is OK, or that women should not teach men; then you do decide what you like and what you don’t like.

I'm not going to judge its content.
Lastly, I think people have a problem with that phrase. The idea that you believe something that you have not judged. Sounding like you have put no real thought into your beliefs. That you just picked up the book and decided everything in it was right without investigating it.
Click to view rylee555's profile rylee555 44 posts since
Apr 12, 2008
Reply 83. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 12, 2008 7:40 PM
in response to: smjack2077
If someone would tell me( a christian) that their way was the only way and all the other statements that you seem to find so offensive I would either say( and I have had these statements posed to me) I disagree and move on or if I am curious I will engage them in a conversation about where their beliefs come from. I would not be offended and accuse them of being angry. This book opened itself up to debate with false and erroneous information about Jesus Christ. that is a fact that I wish people would understand. Because of this it leaves the entire book in Question. At least it does for me. It deals directly with Religion while claiming not have anything to do with religion.( he could have left christ or budda or whoever out of it but he didn't)) This Post is Problems with Christians. tolerence is being able to agree to disagree. If it is imposing our beleifs on someone then I could make a case for Oprah, ET and anybody as being intolerant because just haveing to hear about them from my friends or having to turnt he channel every time she is on the air could be considered an imposition. Of course that is silly but that is what your defintion implies. just because someone has a belief that you don't like or seems imposing don't assume that yours is not. by your post you seem to feel like people are trying to impose their ideas on you simply by talking about them. your definiton of tolerence gives no platform for discusion. i think if your definition of intolerance were a law we would be screaming foul play all day long. You are free to engage in a discussion or not. What I hear you saying is that what christians are saying against ET's book offends you therefore they are intolerant. Intolerant of what? ET's beliefs? Oprah's?Your beleifs? They are just stating their own and they have every right to just as much as you do. Look at the title of the post!!!
Click to view gmwaco's profile gmwaco 355 posts since
Mar 28, 2008
Reply 84. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 13, 2008 6:22 PM
in response to: smjack2077

It is not offensive to me, just not what I believe. I believe Jesus Christ is my Savior and that without Him in my life, I could not have a relationship with God. I am a sinner washed by the blood of Christ.

I know what judging means. I'm referring to everyone that says "You're judging me and you're not supposed to." They don't even know what they are talking about.

To have peace between Believers and non-Believers, non-Believers need to understand that it is our faith. WE are not telling you your way is wrong. Jesus is. We had to make the same choice that we are telling you that everyone must make. You're killing the messenger. I did not come up with the message.

I've never said that non-Christians don't have morals. We are ALL sinners. No one is without sin.

Not all that claim they were Christians, ever were. You have to give up total control. I think the atheist thing is the other way around.

Yeah. Whatever. It would take me forever to list the many Bible studies and other studies I have done and frankly my time is more valuable to me than to have to deal with such a know-it-all.

Click to view 123sooz's profile 123sooz 218 posts since
Feb 24, 2008
Reply 85. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 13, 2008 7:06 PM
in response to: gmwaco
gmwaco~you are making Christians look foolish and I won't tolerate that! Many Christians on these boards are reading a book and whether or not you agree with it is not for you to decide for us Christians who do read this "book"! This is not our Bible, it's a "book" and if ET and Oprah express from their hearts things in this book that goes against what the Bible teaches then God will point it out to them, not you......unless you feel you are God ! So much for your loving Christian spirit.
Click to view gmwaco's profile gmwaco 355 posts since
Mar 28, 2008
Reply 86. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 13, 2008 7:08 PM
in response to: 123sooz
Is that so???
Click to view 123sooz's profile 123sooz 218 posts since
Feb 24, 2008
Reply 87. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 13, 2008 7:13 PM
in response to: gmwaco
Yes, that is so and I take great offense to your lack of understanding and lack of love for all whom God has created.
Click to view smjack2077's profile smjack2077 10 posts since
Apr 11, 2008
Reply 88. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 13, 2008 7:15 PM
in response to: rylee555

rylee555 stated:

What I hear you saying is that what Christians are saying against ET's book offends you therefore they are intolerant.
I don't know where you got that conclusion. Maybe it's a misunderstanding. I don't see how you could misunderstand because I clearly stated at the beginning of my post "You can be offended and still be tolerant.
Stating that one is offended by what you say does not mean they are intolerant." I made a clear distinction between the words. So logically, one can be offensive without being intolerant.

Apparently, your're a better person than I am. If someone came up to me to "discuss" their beliefs with the intention of proving that my beliefs are wrong, I would be annoyed. Especially, when they have not taken the time to really understand what I believe. I find it annoying to talk to someone who thinks I would be better off believing the same way they do. And I know that means that I get annoyed a lot. Even by Oprah and ET. "this is going to change your life" That statement is annoying to me.

From the New Oxford American Dictionary.
tolerate |¿täl¿¿r¿t|
verb [http:// trans. |http:// trans. ]
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference : a regime unwilling to tolerate dissent.
• accept or endure (someone or something unpleasant or disliked) with forbearance : how was it that she could tolerate such noise?
• be capable of continued subjection to (a drug, toxin, or environmental condition) without adverse reaction : lichens grow in conditions that no other plants tolerate.

tolerant |¿täl¿r¿nt|
adjective
1 showing willingness to allow the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with : we must be tolerant of others | a more tolerant attitude toward other religions.
2 (of a plant, animal, or machine) able to endure (specified conditions or treatment) : rye is reasonably tolerant of drought | [in combination ] fault-tolerant computer systems.

I concede, the definition of tolerate is more restrictive than tolerant. But really, how are you allowing the existence of something when your faith compels you to try to convert others?
No one is saying that you don't have the right to state your opinion and beliefs. You can shout it from the mountain. I'm saying it is annoying. Sometimes condescending. And a little arrogant.

and gmwaco

I can't believe you've done so much studying and still come to the conclusion that there's nothing in the bible that God doesn't want in there. Who told you this?

A know-it-all thinks they have all the right information and their way of thinking is the correct way. I question everything and i don't believe everything I read. I don't believe I have all the answers or that one compilation of ancient writings will give me all the answers. Maybe you are speaking of yourself....

Click to view gmwaco's profile gmwaco 355 posts since
Mar 28, 2008
Reply 89. Re: Problems with Christians Apr 13, 2008 7:18 PM
in response to: 123sooz
Is that so?
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