Is is very apparent that many who have posted here know very little about domestic abuse. I lived it as well for nearly 12 years. When he would snap and become violent, abusive and irrational, I would often try to "become invisible." Most of his rage was not hidden from his friends and relatives, yet no one knew what to do, including his parents. He rarely actually struck me as most often it was alcohol that made it so much worse along with some likely chemical imbalance, and I was usually able to run faster to get away from him or duck before a fist would hit me. When he one day said he wanted out of the marriage, I was so very relieved and made plans not to be anywhere around while he packed his things to move back to his mama. Guns are often a part of abuse as well. He would wave it around and make threatening remarks and once pointed a large hand gun at me and threatened to shoot me for wearing a pair of his worn out pajamas which I found to be very comfortable. Thank God that night he turned and fired through the refrigerator instead. It went clean through the door and dented the back of the fridge and this wasn't one of these new lightweight models. It was an old Philco from the 50's or 60's. A 44 Magnum, I think. Sure had a nice kick to it. After that he sold the gun and we never had another one in the house. I always held good paying jobs and sometimes even made more than him so I wasn't as dependent on him as Mary was on her husband, yet I found it so very hard to consider ever leaving him. I loved him more than life itself I guess, but he also kept us fairly poor by drinking up half of his paycheck every Friday night. I never would have called the police on him and when the neighbors did, for the noise he made, I would tell them that I had everything under control and he was sleeping now or that he had left or anything to keep him out of jail.I would never have considered harming my husband in any way, but I certainly could imagine pointing a gun at him like he did to me if it was in the heat of an argument just to let him know how it felt! Not that it would have made any difference. Somehow the abuser can always seem to come up with some lame excuse to justify their irrational rage. And they are so very good at convincing others and themselves that it is everyone's fault but their own. My mother-in-law kept my daughter and told me that I was an unfit mother and tried to convince others as well. She even told me once that my mother did not love me. My husband definitely learned his abusive behavior from his mother. Eventually my daughter stood up to her grandmother with the help of a counselor and told us all that she just wanted to come home. We know so much more now about abuse, but when one is in the midst of all the craziness it is impossible to think rationally. My daughter is now 37 and says she is very grateful that I did not take him back when he later asked to return home and I should have left him sooner. Any one of us is capable of harming another person if we are living with abuse long enough. There but for the Grace of God, go I. My ex is now sober and a Christian and has apologized to me for everything he put us through (what he remembers of it), but he is the rarest of exceptions and no, I probably still would not ever take him back. Anyone who is living this HELL needs to become aware that they are NEVER responsible for someone else's behavior, that abusers most likely will NEVER be fully cured or really change, and if divorce is not an option, then separation is an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY. Get thyself to a SAFE PLACE and then communicate to him from a distance, of course, that you will be living apart until he seeks counseling or medical attention for his illness and that since you are now ill yourself, you and your children will be doing the same. Mary's in-laws and her children also need counseling for the HELL they have all experienced both in losing their son and father, but also there must be something very wrong with grandparents who don't at least try to get help for their son or daughter-in-law when they are obviously in need of help. It matters not one bit who shot who for whatever reason at this point. If the grandparents continue their current behavior, the girls will eventually grow up to hate them once the children are able to see the truth for themselves. Just ask my daughter how she feels about her grandmother now. I have always been extremely careful not to talk badly about anyone so as not to influence others and especially my daughter, but kids really are not that dumb.

Ijustgrace.... I am not talking fantasy. That happens here every day. A man is beat in the face, he is cut and brused. The cops are called out, wife says he hit me, she has no damage on her body, he is bloody HE GOES TO JAIL. Yes it is that far the other way here. With the domestic violence laws the man is arrested 94%+ of the time even when federal govt data shows domestic violence 50 50... As part of a Domestic Relations Court Watch I see the femine biased everyday. Where the man has the right to pay... that is it. We suffer as 85% of the kids in juvi court come from fatherless homes. The Winkler kids needed 2 parents. Mary killed her husband so that would not happen. She has distroyed another family and it was her own. Walking in her shoes... Many men we represent are abused by the wife... NON OF THEM KILL WIFE. Mary is a criminal and should be in jail.

"The things she said you can't make up." She didn't actually say anything! She couldn't remember anything! If her abuse was so bad why, when her father asked her if she was being abused, didn't she tell him the truth and get out then? Nothing she said during this whole interview makes any sense. IF you have read any of the other messages in this board you would know that many of the people have been in her shoes and got out of the relationship the LEGAL way. I do not condone abuse by any means. I myself was abused. However, murder is not the answer to any crime no matter what it is. He may have been a coward for abusing her, although I don't believe he did as there was NO evidence, just her word, but she was the bigger coward for taking the was out she did. And with her own children right there in the house! What kind of mother does that?? The entire situation is so sad.

There is not a law to protect women? My sister was abused by her husband for at least 3 years. Guess what? SHE LEFT!! She didn't kill him. The courts gave her a order of protection and charged him with domestic battery. Now, turn the tables and tell me what happens when a woman beats the heck out of a man? He gets laughed at and nothing gets done. People think its funny if a woman can beat up on a man because he is suppose to be so strong. It can happen to a man just like it can happen to a woman. At least a woman has the law on her side. Mary Winkler had other options, she just chose to ignore them.

+WOW! You speak about the COC as if you are an expert. I will give you this...some of what you are saying is true, but it is also true that you will find error, abuse, and control in many churches of every single denomination or religion known to man kind.+ +Did you attend just a few COC. You have made a sweeping accusation of the COC in general.+ +I was not raised in the COC. I've been exposed to many different denominational churches until the age of 35 when I began going to church with my husband who was raised in the COC. They do not teach the things you are saying. Some of what you are stating is totally misrepresented. I know, because I went into the COC being very wary and very angry about many things they said until I understood exactly what they were saying.+ +The COC congregations do not believe that everyone except them is going to hell. What they believe is this...unless you obey Christ's teachings you are not striving to be like Christ. Yes, they do teach that baptism is a part of the plan of salvation because Jesus teaches us to be baptized.+ +They are very serious about worship unto God, and since the scriptures do not instruct the use of musical instruments they won't use them. This is merely because they are more interested in pleasing God than man.+ +The COC I've attended does not teach that you should or have to marry a person who is also COC. Not at all. I certainly wasn't COC and my husband married me and we went to seperate churches for 15 years. What they teach is for you to marry someone who will help you in your walk with Christ.+ +The issue with women in the church, you are correct. Women are not allowed to teach men, but this is what scripture says.+ +Don't people choose to be Christians to follow the teaching of Christianity? If one doesn't want to follow the teaching to the best of one's ability then why even want to be a Christian in the first place?+ +Men and women have their place in the church order. Women teach each other and they teach the children.+ +If a man isn't there in the leadership position well, I guess a woman would have to lead prayer or teach. I pray at home, I lead prayer with my kids and my prayers are just as acceptable to God as any mans.+ +But concerning worship service, when reading the scripture, men were always in leadership position. What better example to follow than the very men who walked with Christ, the Apostles?+ + I do understand your feeling however, when I first went with my husband I went with preconceived notions about the COC and until I decided to listen and study for myself much of what they said was offensive to me, until I fully understand what they were talking about.+ +Do I agree with everything said at every COC I've been to? NO way. But I feel the same no matter what religion or doctrine I've been exposed to.+ +Because I have a brain, I can think for myself, man makes mistakes, God doesn't. I can read and study for myself.+ +I admit, many people don't want to read and study for themselves, they want to be led and told what to do. And this is why they get into trouble.+ +I realize the COC has a bad reputation and in some cases I totally understand why, but I just had to set the record straight that it's wrong to make sweeping statements about groups of people, especially when you use the word CULT. People are not all the same, religions aren't all the same and every congregation in every church in every denomination across this world is different.+ + I think many men have a tendency to be controlling, and a woman can put up with it or not. The scripture never said for a woman to be controlled by her husband. I think some men will twist scripture in their favor because they want to be controlling, their heart is not right.+ +Scripture does tell a man to love his wife as Christ loves the church; even that he gave his life for the church.+ +T++here are good people in the COC who are not oppressive and controlling,++I've witnessed this over the past few years, and I am sorry that you've had the experience you've had. I've had some too throughout my life and religious abuse can be the worst kind.+ +I don't know what to think of Mary Winkler. Who knows what went on behind closed doors. It is tragic especially for those children.+ +I just wish that people out there would not make generalized, sweeping statements about a group of people. It can truly hurt those who are good, loving, kind and caring... Those who strive to be truly Christ-like.+ ++

Maybe, maybe not. If is was abuse, it screams out the depth of devastation it causes ones soul and spirit. It robs you of your true self to the point where you can hardly think normally. You become a robot, living your life centered around the thoughts, feelings, moods, anger, manipulation of the abuser. You don't matter any more. If you've not experienced it you wouldn't understand that.

Be amazed all you want to.I believe her.My opinion.