Well I started a journal during this whole thing just to get the thoughts from my head on the page and hopefully give the thoughts less power over my every day life. What is written here is the reality of how things played out between my ex and myself without her knowledge. In so many ways she swapped places with me - she became the one in the dark who now has to worry about her relationship. I guess I did want to come here to learn more about the OW, but again, the stories are all so similar. We've been talking about the fantasy aspect to the relationship - this was the reality. Had she known any of this, I'd like to think she would have made different choices. But perhaps I give her too much credit.

He will probably cheat on her down the road too. I think it was Dr. Phil (not sure though) who said "If he'll cheat with her, he'll cheat on her." Maybe not soon but eventually. I believe that karma tends to come around in everyones life eventually.

I think it's human nature to be flattered and unfortunately, that is a female weakness. Well, some women, anyways. The women who will go ga-ga anytime a guy says "You are the most beautiful woman I've ever seen!" It's an ego boost for those women. Me, I'm afraid I'm not the type to fall for that sort of thing but the guy may get a raised left eyebrow and that's it.

T You cannot BE FOR REAL what family do you know that wants a member to be a misstress what child do you know that would not be affected by a parent that is a misstress OMG .l have plenty of sympathy for you if you believe the wife and her family are the only ones in pain love and understanding wished to you Liane

I am very real I'm afraid. I'm saying her family does not know she was seeing a married man and they certainly didn't know she was the one who initiated the affair (her words, not mine). So her children were not affected by her being a mistress. Her father still thinks she hung the moon. I'm sure there are other OW who have not had it so easy - I'm just saying this one did. I'm sure there is a possibility of them learning the whole story but certainly not from me. I could not be a party to intentionally hurting kids - even hers. It's not thier fault.

That's kind of what everyone hopes, right. That there is some kind of justice or "karma" coming around.
It may not be so. And you or I end up completely heartbroken because we want the worst for them.

I think it's unproductive and a real waste of energy to even think that one thing or the other will happen to the "guilty" party (even though we are both guilty - in most cases).

BTW, Dr. Phil is not the "authority" on most of these subjects. he has some good advice, but, I have heard better (IMHO).

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Hmm - the postings aren't coming through. Must be a tech issue.

Edo:

I guess to do want some kind of justice or Karma to work though I think I would feel differently if there were one ounce of compassion shown from the OW. I friend of mine asked me why I expected something from someone that they clearly aren't capable of. Good question. If there is any justice working here it is that she is now in the position of wondering about what's really happening when he's not with her - my ex has shared that she has become clingy and insecure. Not what either of them had in mind. So she hangs in and he tells me that he has no one else so he hangs in too. I suppose I could send her his Match profile and the hundreds of e-mails and texts he sends me - that would cause problems for them - but I can't bring myself to actually do any of those things. I guess if their relationship works out or doesn't it will be because of them, not me. Also, he would be on my case full time then and I don't want that either.

TJ.... I'm assuming you don't want this man back, so forwarding your emails to her would serve no purpose. In fact, it would just make him very mad at you and cause MORE problems in your life. Your best bet is to distance yourself from this man and tell him not to contact you in any way.

Yes, that is the point I was trying to make - just not very well apparently.

Also, trying to say that I have sort of hoped for some kind of justice though I know it's crazy. I just can't "engineer" Karma. Darn.

We do have to have contact because we have children together and try to work together on that but I'm working to keep it just about the kids when we communicate. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

First off, I'd like to sympathaize with you over the break up of your marriage. I can't understand how you must feel.

The mistress, has no respect what so ever, she doesn't respect herself or you because if she did she would think twice before wrecking your married. She was calous in her actions and does not know the huge affect the breakup of a marriage can have on the hildren involved. I know, because I have been brought up my my mother. It wasn't easy. A least in your case your ex is caring for your children. Unlike thousands of men who escape child maintenance. Shame on them.

If a relationship is not going well, neither of you are meeting each others needs, you should find out how you can make things better, seperate or get a divorce.

Marriage is for life, and if one can't take that challenge they should not get married. Your ex husband is wrong for cheating on you. I can't completely judge him because I haven't got both sides of the story.

I wish you well, with your new life and wish you all the happiness in the world.

I know we can't help who we fall in love with. But married men are off the market. Thats someone elses man, you don't know how long it took to build up their relationship. You knew the first guy was married 6 months into your adventure and you still carried on the affair. Whats worse you found yourself in a similar situation. When men see that you are vulnerable they will take the bate. Before you get into any retaionship you should ask questions are they married, have you got children, have you got an STD. I'm not joking. It will save you alot of heart ache. Not to be harsh but if there weren't women like you tempting men maybe the divorce rates would be much lower.

Is she witholding sex or lost interest since she had children?

It sounds like there is more to this story. Maybe your not making her feel sexy, perhaps you need to help out with the children and do more chores and then your wife will appreciate you more. If you do all that, romance her, take an interest in her hobbies she'll think shes got the best guy in the world. If that doesn't work you should get a divorce not cheat. Its the worst thing you could do to anybody.

I believe there is often times an insecurity on the OW who ends up becomming the new wife. I had a friend who had an affair with a MM who eventually left his wife for her. After the honeymoon phase wore off and he started going out with his friends more she was always worried about him being around other women. Guess what , 2 years after they got married she found out he was having an affair with another woman. I don't know if this was karma BUT I do believe that a relationship that starts out based on deception and lies has very little chance of surviving in the long run.

Hey Peace and TJ.
I agree with you that a relationship based on lies has little chance of survival, but, i think there are 2 or 3 very distinct things happening in that story you just told. first, The guy definitely has a problem, and if you paid attention to how long he'd been married, if he'd cheated before, and some other particulars of his relationship with your friend (I don't know those) it would be safe to say he was not "marriage material" May have been a nice guy - when he wanted to, but, there was obviously more. You are right, marrying the person that you had an affair with is RISKY business. VERY low survival rate, but, not 0. The odds are definitely against this "new" marriage. However, just because they had an affair to start their relationship does not necessarily mean that he or she will do it again. I know of many cases where that has not happened. Granted, they are few compared to the ones that did, but, it can work. The second thing that I am hearing here is that men tend to not like being "smothered" i.e. they don't like a clingy/needy woman. It's a drain. Of course there are some that would put up with it, but others will tuck tail and run. I bet your friend was not needy and insecure when she was the OW, but, as soon as she became the W, she realized who the man she married was, and against her better judgement became insecure and thus clingy... so, once someone has done something before it's much easier to do it again (than the first time - that goes with anything). I bet this is what he was running away from from his 1st wife. Now he finds himself in the same situation he was (with a different woman). And having learned NOTHING from his past relationship, goes about solving the problems the same way he did the last time. Sorry for your friend.

So, again, I agree with you. It's a bad position, and i would NEVER suggest it to anyone. the affair relationship and all the relationships it has created are toxic and need to be cleaned. building on those is very shaky.

TJ, you are most likely right that your ex's life is now miserable, but, I also agree with you and the other poster that you shouldn't send her anything. Then it would just look like you are jealous. The best thing to do for a guy is to IGNORE him or act like you don't get what he's hinting at. If you entertain his antics even slightly he'll come on stronger. When your ex. H says these things, just tell him "yeah right, next subject please" (regardless of how you really feel) - then come tell us so you can get it out! How long has it been since your D? Are you dating? Or waiting for the kids to be grown?