Spirit Health Style Relationships Home Food Money World

kim_eng's Blog

by kim_eng

What is G_d?

Posted on Apr 18, 2008

Hello Dear Friends,


Many of you are now going beyond a merely intellectual understanding of this teaching, and are realizing the meaning and reality of presence in your own experience. With the ending of chapter six and the beginning of chapter seven, we are entering into the space in which we are becoming free and are no longer identified with thoughts, emotions, painbody, ego. How do I know this? Because the first step has already been taken - that is the realization that you have a painbody and an ego.


It has taken many years for my painbody to dissolve. In fact, I still do not feel comfortable saying that my painbody has completely dissolved. Why? Because in my experience, the painbody can lay dormant for a long time, then suddenly become triggered through one of life's events (and there will always be challenging situations, illnesses, loss of home or job, deaths, unconscious people, etc.) and so we are once again tested. However, provided we have been practicing being present, I can assure you that in those moments when we are tested, after a long dormant period of the painbody, we find that we have gained enough awareness so that it is not able to take us over completely. In other words, there is now enough conscious presence in you to witness the painbody arise, without becoming identified with it, and watch it quickly dissolve.


Your only concern becomes, "Am I present in this moment?" By dropping any desires we have of dissolving the painbody "forever," we let go of time, past and future. That is to say, we become present and accept the form that this moment is taking; painbody, emotion, thought, or external situation. We stop trying to control our lives, our thoughts, our emotions, and our painbody. We become friendly with the present moment. By becoming friendly with the present moment, we accept what is, and in the acceptance of what is, a deeper perspective arises that enables us to perceive not only the form, (ego, painbody, external situation) but also the space in which the form arises. In other words, we are aware that we are aware. We are conscious.



Dtartist writes, "I have a conflict going on with my pain body...the anger I feel for having had the negative experiences in my life...for the abuse put upon me by my mother, for the things she never taught me, for the childhood I never had because I had to care for my brothers and never had a parent care for me...I am angry because my mother resented me and pretended she didn't...For not being taught that there was more to life than just survival..."


I don't know if you remember Eckhart saying in one of his seminar sessions, "no human being can act beyond their level of consciousness." Your mother acted according to the way in which her mind had become conditioned by her past. The things she did and the things she failed to do were an expression of her limitations as a human being. She was not spiritually awakened, and so she was unable to go beyond her limitations. When you recognize this, compassion arises and it becomes possible to forgive ("Forgive them for they know not what they do," to use the words of Jesus on the cross). It also becomes possible now to recognize your grievances as stories you have been telling yourself in your mind for many years. The stories are based on the illusion that your mother was conscious when in fact she was not. The emotional pain that you have been experiencing throughout your adult life concerning your childhood was in fact not created by what happened in your childhood, but by the thoughts that your mind produced about it. I believe it is possible for you now to step beyond all those stories, access the power of the present moment and accept the form that this moment takes without judgment and criticism.


Another one of your thoughts that keeps you stuck in negativity and dysfunction is this, "The unfortunate reality of life on this earth is that it is obscenely expensive and gets worse daily." Another sad story. The ego strengthens itself continuously through its negative judgments about life while the painbody feeds on all those thoughts. They are not the truth. What is the truth then? This moment is as it is. In the words of Eckhart, "I can make the Now into my friend or my enemy." Your mother was not conscious enough to choose, but you are. What's your choice?


By believing in the story and emotions, in other words, through your attachment to the story and emotions, the ego develops a "victim" role which then begins clouding your perception of the world, of others and yourself.


I recall a time in my awakening process, as much as I wanted awakening, I also wanted the pain. I clearly saw that there was a part of me that enjoyed feeling pain. As soon as I recognized that, of course the painbody began to dissolve.


Life has not passed you by and your suffering has not been in vain. Why not? Because it has brought you to this point where you are beginning to awaken. With this comes gratitude for the present moment. As you let go of negativity, you will soon begin to experience positive changes in your life situation.



Honeyluu asks, "What helps you stay present during conversations?"


Practice keeping some attention inward rather than giving all your attention to the world of form. In other words, feel your inner body, your breath, or the stillness within, while listening to others speak. This takes the focus away from your thoughts, judgments, labels, opinions, ideas, etc. You cannot truly listen if you are thinking. To truly listen requires still alert presence. That is to say, you become the space for what is arising. That space is unconditional love. In this love, true communication arises (which is listening with no thoughts and allowing the words to come from the space of still alert presence).



Halp337 writes, "I like your blogs, thank you. But I'm disappointed in your neutral comment about anti depressants..."


I do not advocate the use of anti-depressants or any other drugs. In fact, I believe that anti-depressants don't work in dissolving depression. In my blog last week, I had mentioned, "Using drugs, prescribed or non-prescribed, may ‘control the symptoms' of depression, but it does not deal with the underlying cause, the undissolved painbody." My answer was related directly to Mememe33's situation. She/he is currently on anti-depressants, experienced a painbody attack and dissolved it through simply becoming the aware presence. All this took place while on medication. Should she/he now immediately stop using anti-depressants? As you may know, an anti-depressant is an addictive substance and should not be withdrawn from the body abruptly. The stopping of such medication usually requires professional assistance which I recommended.


When you say, "...I wonder why NO spiritual teacher will ever admit they (anti-depressants) don't work..."


I cannot speak for other spiritual teachers, except Eckhart's last webinar session when Oprah asked him, "Does medication get in the way of using the painbody as fuel for enlightenment?" In which Eckhart replied, "To a large extent it does. There may be extreme cases when medication is necessary, and for people who are already on medication, it's certainly not advisable to go off without advice of a doctor..."


You were right in saying, "...I just think they (anti-depressants) are so common and so accepted...it's almost as if...those of us not on them are a minority." Eckhart said, "...not giving in to this culturally conditioned behavior that says whenever you feel discomfort inside yourself...immediately seek some external help in the form of a substance..." For decades, we have accepted the belief that prescription medication is a means of fixing our ailments, physical or psychological. This was our conditioning, and for many people, it still is. Does this mean we should fault them because of their unconsciousness? Any judgments, criticisms, opinions, ideas you have are thoughts. And those kinds of thoughts prevent us from understanding an individual's unique set of circumstances. Compassion arises when we let go of judgments. Every person while in the grip of the painbody has their own tolerance level to that pain. Some people, like yourself, "I still have depression and was recommended drugs, but I passed on it..." have enough awareness to accept such emotional pain, thus avoid taking medication, while others don't have that awareness yet and so do what they have been conditioned to do: take medication.



Sharenow writes, "...I found out that you have offered spiritual counseling, $95 per private session! And you are all booked up! The benefit from spiritual liberation is immeasurable. It is out-weighted well beyond all material costs.....what is your view about, in our modern world and mainly in the Western society, it turns all of the spiritual services and guidance (what used to be a free service) into business? What used to be donation-based has become more and more charge-based..."


I appreciate your concern here. The cost for some people may be unaffordable. I would not refuse any person for spiritual counseling, talks or teaching intensives because of money (this is limited to space availability). Also, a number of partial scholarships is usually available.


Perhaps, one day, money will no longer exist as a way of living and we won't need spiritual talks anymore because we will live and breathe the One Life, the Truth that "makes us free."


However, until that day comes, spiritual counselors, teachers, pastors, churches, offices, etc. need to pay their bills (rent, phone, hydro, insurance, staff, etc.). In the past, and still to a certain degree in some cultures, spiritual services and guidance are based on donations. In fact, the practice of paying tithes is very ancient. It goes as far back as Genesis in the Bible. As well, as you mentioned, "Eastern society Zen teachers and monks," spiritual temples and monasteries, are usually supported through donations by their members. In both western and eastern spiritual teachings it was customary that individuals and families would support their churches, temples, clergymen, monks, etc. through "tithing" ten percent of their gross yearly income. However, today, most temples and churches have a significant decline in members as well as income from tithing. With the higher costs in living, the average family is not able to tithe ten percent or perhaps even a lesser percentage of their income. As well, nowadays, many people are no longer members of one particular affiliation and may have more than one spiritual teacher. In those cases, tithing is not the most appropriate form of giving. Also many contemporary spiritual teachers are independent and have no source of income other than what they charge.



Both Cielo1 and Ammachi12 would like to know, beyond what Eckhart writes about, my view and observations of how to deal with the female menstruating painbody. Cielo1 says, "...I have experienced for years this great heaviness and negativity that takes over a week before menstruation starts..." and Ammachi12 said, "My difficulty is in being aware of the pain, but not getting caught up in the pain or letting it get to me psychologically..."


It's been several years since I have had any menses. However, having gone through menses, pregnancy and menopause, the changes that take place during this time happen on three levels: physical, emotional and spiritual. Chemical changes inside the body occur, which cause physical symptoms to arise such as bloating, cramping, nausea, migraines, hot flashes, etc. Chemical reactions also take place in the brain which then affects our thinking (usually negativity arises). Our emotions, of course, are directly connected to the body and mind, as well as the collective female painbody. Therefore, irritability, anger, etc. arise. What is difficult to remember while the changes in the body and mind are happening is that it is nothing personal.


The instant I stopped resisting the present moment, I became free of the painbody. In other words, when I had let go of my expectations that this moment should be different than what was actually happening, (i.e. the physical changes in the body, the changes in my thoughts, the change in my mood and emotions), all symptoms, physical, mental and emotional pain dissolved. I felt normal again. When I say "normal" I mean present, rather than the "unconscious normal."


The painbody of course feeds the ego, the very structure that lives on identification and separation. To rise above the female painbody, collective female unconsciousness, bring your attention into the body, by feeling the energy, sensations, created by emotions, thoughts. It is also important to stop identifying with all the labels, judgments, interpretations that may arise in the mind. Be the space, the unconditional love, for the arising painbody. In the full acceptance of what is, comes peace. Then the sensations experienced in the body become fuel for presence. I now feel gratitude and fulfillment in my experiences as a woman (menses, pregnancy and menopause); my role as a mother had provided an opportunity to demonstrate unconditional love; and now I feel the Goddess within, that is to say, the realization of my spiritual essence, who I really am, that lives and experiences itself through my female form.



Karcal1 writes, "I am an atheist, and while I am enjoying this book and trying to put the practices into my everyday life, everytime I read the word "g-d", it rubs me the wrong way and turns me off of the message..."


In one of the early webinar sessions both Eckhart and Oprah commented on the word God. Eckhart said he rarely uses the word God, because the word has been widely misused and misinterpreted. Instead he uses words like the formless, or consciousness, or Being. Those words do not create an image in our minds. Oprah, however, uses the word God. I also use the word God sometimes. However, there was a time when I refrained from using the word because it too rubbed me the wrong way. Until I realized the true meaning of God. God, consciousness, stillness, whatever the name, has no form. It is the timeless essence; the eternal now. "The Tao that can be named is not the true Tao", says the ancient Chinese book of wisdom, the Tao Te Ching.


Perhaps, the ideas you have of God, "...a man floating around in the sky with a bunch of rules to follow that if are not followed, one is punished and judged..." were once ideas put into you, but now you have the choice to let them go.


You asked, "...Can one not become *enlightened* without mentioning g-d and believing in g-d?..." Certainly one can. Buddhists, for example, never use the word God. God is not an idea, nor is God something to believe in. Both attachment and aversion to the word God can become a hindrance to realizing the reality behind that word. Enlightenment is feeling the God essence, the presence or stillness, within. Eckhart defined enlightenment in The Power of Now as, "...your natural state of felt oneness with Being."



In closing, I would like to leave you with some words that Eckhart said in the last session, "You are the awareness disguised as a person."


Be well...be in peace,

Kim Eng

© 2008, Kim Eng

31 Comments
Comments

This may be just my ego talking, but I find the idea of you charging $95 per private session a bit unsettling, although I do not know the length of the sessions, etc. It would be hard to believe that you need to charge that much to pay your bills. And how could you do that, pay your bills, if you did not refuse anyone on the basis of money? I don't know, you may be completely sincere, but are you sure you and Eckhart won't just become just another example of how the ego loves money and actually runs our society?

Thank you Kim!

Kim, I have really enjoyed the Q&A format of your blog. And I have a question. I was raised in a fear based religion and from a young age "felt" that something wasn't "right" with the fear. I have read tons of self-help and spiritually books over the years and it wasn't until ANE that I had one BIG AHA moment that is still continuing. In ANE, Eckhart occasionally inserts excerpts from the Bible and quotes from Jesus. The one story from the Bible that I am still trying to wrap my mind around is Eve and "Original Sin". In the fear based religion there seemed to always be the undercurrent of "women are to blame" since Eve ate the forbidden fruit. I never fully bought into that either but I realize now that my pain body did. And I think this contributed to my thinking/feeling of never being good enough. In Harold Kushner's book How Good Do We Have to Be he writes, "I would like to suggest that the story of the Garden of Eden is a tale, not of Paradise Lost but of Paradise Outgrown, not of Original Sin but the Birth of Conscience." I loved that quote when I first read it, but didn't fully grasp it until I read ANE. I guess my question to you is, what are your thoughts on the story of Eve? Thanks,

Hello Kim, My question has to do with you and your spiritual training. I have read your biography and when I saw that you went through "seven years of intense spiritual training", I found that I wanted to learn a little more about your training. I am currently a life coach and as I continue to awaken, I have felt an inner sense arise in me that is directing me to also spiritually counsel others. Any information you can share about your 7 years of spiritual training would be wonderful. Peace and stillness to all! Smtan04

P.S. Kim....THANK YOU SO MUCH for the new meditations we are able to download. I have downloaded them and listen to them every morning and evening. Your spiritual guidance, as well as Eckhart's have been extremely valuable to me. Thank you again! Smtan04

Kim, thanks for your in depth discussions. In regards to the pain body, I see it as the emotional and physical aftermath of ego processes, i.e. I don't see it as different from the ego. Eckhart stated that the ego is not trying to create pain, but the ego is trying to create itself, the sense of Self, which it does by disrupting stillness with disturbing mental formations...thus it seems that it inflicts suffering to create Self. Could you clarify!

Kim, thank you for addressing my hesitance and difficulties reading this book when ecountering the word g-d. You say "Both attachment and aversion to the word God can become a hindrance to realizing the reality behind that word". That sentence alone has been an eye and spirit opener. I didn't realize my aversion to the word g-d was just as detrimental to my awakening as the attachment to the word. I get it now. I finally get it, and oh what a powerful feeling that is. I feel a burden has been lifted from my shoulders. After reading those words, for the first time, I was able to feel the aliveness inside of my body, while sitting in silence...after 7 weeks of actively trying! It was a very strong/intense vibration that quite surprised me but also delighted me. I think my aversion to the word g-d was blocking my attempts at stillness/aliveness. I thank you for bringing clarity to my confusion.

I am so happy that I discovered your blog just today. I have gotten so much more out of the book with the direct teaching from Ekhardt,Oprah, Elizabeth Lesser, and now you! Thank you for making ANE practical and clarified. Sincerely, Suzie

Hi Kim: Thank You for taking the time to answer our questions. I heard you at Elizabeth Lesser's show last week. I could sense the depth of your realization. I need help. It seems I have arrived to the structure of the ego and the structure of the painbody. I have been on the spiritual path for 18 years using The Ennegram:From Fixation to Liberation, as a starting point. Three thoughts keep repeating:"What is next?" "I need to know" "What is the point anyways.?" I have been addicted to spiritual concepts:Silent,Love and Being. When someone tells to "Be Still", my mind translated as sitting down like the Buddah did. HOw would you deal with these ego thoughts and more spiritual ego thoughts? I have noticed over the years that I have a dense painbody as I have been in wars over lifetimes. I see all the injustice around the world and it enrgaged me. Is there an exercise to move the stuck energy within my body? in grace, Enrique

Hi Kim, I have a tough question. A friend of mine and I have been studying ANE together and have shared a spiritual quest for the last 12 years. Last night, she confessed to me why she had been struggling with her marriage for the last 3 years of their 7-year marriage. I was aware of the struggle although she had never revealed the exact reason - I assumed it had been an affair. I had always given her advice on that assumption since I thought I knew him well enough - "Whatever he's done, it's clear he loves you. He is a warm and worthwhile person. Maybe this suffering is exactly what Mr. Tolle was speaking of and has lead you to this point, etc. etc." Anyway, she found out that her husband had been convicted of exposing himself and inappropriately touching a 5-year-old girl 10 years prior to their meeting! Not only was she shocked (me too!), she is still tormented by so many emotions, one being guilt because she knew of this propensity due to his desire to role play in their sex life. For the last 3 years, her goal has been to find a financial way out of the marriage, all the while being pulled back and forth by his efforts to make up for this "betrayal" - apologizing, stopping the role play, talking about it with her, claims that he is a changed man, etc. etc. Now, she has hope, that ANE could be a way for them to reconcile this in their marriage and lead to both of their awakenings. My first reaction was to say, "Pack your bags and be done with the pervert." Instead, I tried HARD to be present, make a space, not label, etc. I told her to reread ANE and maybe an answer would come to her. But, now, this morning I am reverting back to "leave the pervert!" I know there is definitely something I have to learn out of this, but if you were me, what advice would you give her for what seems to be an almost unforgiveable offense? Grateful for a response.

Dear Kim, thank you for making yourself available here! I have no question, yet would like to share how much I'm gaining from this web cast of Eckhart and Oprah as well as from your blog entries. Having practiced being present for quite some time now, I feel truly blessed how things in my life have shifted. Especially in my intimate relationships I see wonderful changes. I always had a problem with the idea of unconditional love, yet Eckharts way of expressing it - that true love means the essence of a person and not the form - has given me great insights. Now, I am much more able to let go of definition and truly see behind this thing called the painbody! Out of my current "relating" (-; has come an amazing creativity, which I never knew before (I'm 42) and just as Eckhart said about his books, a publication is coming together almost by itself. I have walked a "spiritual" path for many years and have to say, that being in the NOW is a simple and yet so profound answer to so many questions if not to all. It is wonderful to see that these ideas and this kind of wisdom is now taken and embraced by so many. It is imperative to take full responsibility for one's life, find one's own answers and most of all, trust into oneself and one's intuition and feelings. We are all creators, we are GOD, also. With Love, Honor and Respect, Epona / Germany

Dear Kim, only this few words "my role as a mother" in your blog helped removing a huge pain off my chest. Just after reading your blog, I prepared a question for you. Although Eckhart words resonate fully with me, at the same time, I had my ego saying, " with all the respect for him, he has never experienced being a mother and then loosing the contact with her child". Interestingly after writing my question in detail, I almost could hear you (or my higher conscious) giving me the answer. The answer was, "Although you like the idea of accepting what is on this matter at the level of mind, you truely don't want to accept it". Then I could observe the struggle in my body so clearly between acceptance and resistance and finally I realized why I don't want to accept "what is". I was so scared of the unknown. Then I let go. I felt the pain being removed from my chest and a load from my shoulders. I am so grateful to your being an angel here for such a beautiful experience. Thank you :x

Dear kim, At first I don't speak (and write) english very well, sorry about that. Thank you for your meditations, I think they are very very useful and transformatives. I didn't know your work. I were too in Barcelona, I'm from brcelona, Spain, (29- september- 2007) with Eckhart and you and the other people in the Eckhart's talk, it was wonderful, thank you and Eckhart for say yes to Barcelona too. I could see you physically... Thanks to Eckhart and Oprah for doing what they are doing, and specially, thanks to Eckhart (and you) for trying to comunicate IT ("presence") to the people and the possibility to live in a very diferent (and better) way. I think I have all your retreat videos and books. One uestion: If "I"'m awekening and a lots of times I think that no, because may be I'm not ready yet, I would consider Eckhart my father awakening and Byron katie my mother awakening, because sometimes, as well as Eckhart teachings, I'm trying (only trying because my heath and life situation are vey difficult I think), to do the work of Byron katie too. I try, when I can, and it isn't always, to question my toughts through the four questions and the turnarounds of Byron katie, the stories that I believe and are saing me why I'm a failure and mentally and physically ill, and who I am, and who are they, and what "bad people" did to me and why I can't be happy or present now: the voice in my head, the ego story and the feelings and pain with I am identificated without knowing. "Which voice? That one!" like Eckhart said, and my question is: Why in the Eckhart teachings Eckhart says that the unique thing that is requiried is to be the observer of "our" mental internal voice? Is this enough? Byron Katie says that we have to try to write the stressfull thougts in our head and question them like in a meditation, not only mental, way: For exemple, "my mother doesn't love me" would be: Is that true? (internal-heart answer) Can you know absolutelly that this is true? (i.a.) how do I react when I believe that thought? (how do I feel and treat others and me?) (Discribe and write that) And who or what would I be , in this moment , without my thought? (d. and w.) and turnaround (My mother loves me, I don't love my mother, at least in the moment I believe that she doesn't love me, I don't love me) them and find tree genuine exemples in our lifes about the turnaround can be at least true or truer than our original thougt. Byron katie says that there is no other option: or believing our thougts or questioning them. Is that true for you and Eckhart? My question is: It is possible to do this, try to see the false thougts and don't believe them only with the power of presence, the observer that we are? Is this the same? Are they saing the same in a "diferent" way? Thank you very much Kim. Emilio Postdata: I find very useful the eckhart pointers-questions: Is there any problem, now? what is my relationship with the present moment? and: Can I be the Space for that?

Hi Kim: Thank you for taking your time to write your comments and answer our questions. I don't have a question right now. I just wanted to let you know that what you wrote on 4/11 really resonated with me. You wrote<<<Life has not passed you by and your suffering has not been in vain. Why not? Because it has brought you to this point where you are beginning to awaken. With this comes gratitude for the present moment. As you let go of negativity, you will soon begin to experience positive changes in your life situation. >>> I grew up in a single-mother-single-child family, and my mother abused me physically and emotionally. She was abused by her mother, my grandmother, when she was little, and so had been my grandmother... So I developed a heavy painbody on top of what inherited from generations of mothers. I realized this 13 years ago, and since then I've been on the path to heal myself. A few months ago, I was finally able to let go of it when I realized what you wrote: (my) suffering has not been in vain. Why not? Because it has brought (me) to this point where (I am) beginning to awaken. Thank you for putting it in such simple yet beautiful words.

I sometimes think that being in the present moment DISCONNECT us from our real feelings and real dealing with life. I often feel a little bit withdraw from life, from situations, from people, and feelings about all of it. There is much more stillness in my life now but sometimes I feel like there is no intimacy beetween me and other people. So what do I do or think wrong?

Hello Kim again, another question if you have enough time. One of my main problems in live has been a very very intense fear, I could say: very intense fear to live maybe. Maybe I see (my thougts) the world like very dangerous, but the prior think is that I sense a feeling of intense fear. Can you give some advise for that? Thank you again. Emilio

Dear Kim, thank you again, for your wise and caring words. I really enjoyed hearing you on the Aftershow with Elizabeth Lesser, you both made the Aftershow so meaningful, and such a delightful learning experience. Please continue to share your insights and joy, with us all. I have also learned and absorbed so much from the teachings of Eckhart, Elizabeth Lesser, Oprah, and of course you dear Kim Eng. Thank you for so much. for your wonderful teachings. Namaste, With Peace, Love, Joy & Happiness!!

Dear Kim, thank you again, for your wise and caring words. I really enjoyed hearing you on the Aftershow with Elizabeth Lesser, you both made the Aftershow so meaningful, and such a delightful learning experience. Please continue to share your insights and joy, with us all. I have also learned and absorbed so much from the teachings of Eckhart, Elizabeth Lesser, Oprah, and of course you dear Kim Eng. Thank you for so much. for your wonderful teachings. Namaste, With Peace, Love, Joy & Happiness!!

Hi Kim. Thanks for your extra support through this blog. I have really gained insight from the book and classes. Eckhart's teachings about the ego and pain body make sense to me when I think about my own behavior. Also, the law of attraction concept seems to make sense to me as well. Having said that, I was thinking about Eckhart's statement that to say one religion is the only true religion would be the ego talking(which made sense to me). I suppose my question is, Eckhart seems to be advocating his principles as truth. Wouldn't some argue that his ego/pain body concepts are theories? And the law of attraction being a theory as well? This may seem a minor detail but it just left me wondering.... Also, I am a bit confused about using some of Jesus's teachings as well. I have enjoyed the references Eckhart has made to things Jesus said and what he really meant by them. However, I keep thinking about some things Jesus said such as "The only way to know God is through his son" (paraphrased-can't remember exact words). These words make me wonder if he really was enlightened or someone who really was seeking the worship of those around him? Thanks for your time!

Dear Kim I need to ask a question of you, It has been one I have considered for some time and do not want to ask it out of the pain body or ego, just so you are aware that this is my intention although I may not be successful. The question is in regards to Depression, I have read your previous blogs, listened to Mr. Tolle and Oprah and just don't feel that it has been completely addressed. If our body is form, it has limitations, it ages, we are encouraged not to identify with the form. I get this, but, our bodies have dysfunction, chemical imbalances, all organs can have dysfunction, and the brain is an organ, it is not me. Therefore can there not be chemical imbalance in the brain, like there is imbalance in a diabetic person's pancreas or Oprah's Thyroid. These things are real so why can depression not be real...as long as I am not identified with it. Would you suggest that a person with schizophrenia go off of his antipsychotic meds., or that a person with parkinson's disease go off of his medication (as this is also a disease of the brain). To suggest that all antidepressants are not needed is dangerous (I think) as suicide and other horrible results of depression are all too real. I have a very strong pain body that has identified my self as a depressed person for some time, but as I have been reading A New Earth I have realized that I am not a depressed person. I have literally awakened (I slept most of the last year away as I could no longer stand myself). I feel that my pain-body really grew after my inital depression which occurred in my early 20s. At that time I had no sad story, I thought myself to be quite a fortunate person. I even remember, in the worst times, feeling the greatest presence, knowing that it would be okay. I remember thinking that God or and Angel had comforted me but actually the "I am" in me comforted me. I think I was more "me" at that time than I ever have before or since. I knew I had hit the bottom and I was still okay with whatever was going to happen, despite the discomfort. The problem with Clinical depression is that it is debilitating in many ways, and effects your ability to think, to pay attention, to make decisions, besides the intense psychic pain. It made no sense to stay this way. Why would I if there was a way for me to function more effectively in this world. Shortly after this I went on medication and my symptoms dissipated. Now.... since that time (14 years) I have developed a "sad story" and have grown fond of my identification with my depression, thereby increasing the strength of my pain body more and more. I have used it as excuse for my shortcomings and failures. I have developed the depression that you are referring to. My pain body grew and grew as I identified with it more and more. But I am still on the medications. I suppose I could increase them everytime my pain body grew but I did somehow recognize the difference between this depression which came from my thoughts, and the original "clinical" depression. I did not know why it was different but I knew it was. Now do I still need the Medications? Which depression am I medicating now? I belive that answer will come from within, from presence the answer will come. This is how Mr. Tolle answers most questions, he says to become present and the answer will come. So why in this case do we need to be told not to take medication or that it is bad for us when, through presence, the answer will come to each of us in our own time. And do you agree that these were two different depressions with two different causes and that Medications, sometimes, are warranted? I ask this question with concern and will respect your response if you have one. Sincerely Julie

Kim, thank you for your insights. I especially appreciate you addressing the pain body as it relates to the menstrual cycle. I would encourage women to embrace their bodies for everything they do